i don’t mind the “no swearing” rule. but there needs to be consistency. how come i get warned for saying “lmfao” or “wtf” but the guy that says “damn” in global gets to walk away scot-free? like, c’mon… it really seems like staff are literally just going “yeah we don’t like this word so no one can say anything alluding to it” and that’s even harsher than some children’s shows.
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Honestly, we can all agree that the Swear Policy does an update but part of me still does not get why you are making a forum post about this? The examples you gave are not the right words for this topic. It depends on how you say them actually, I can say “Damn I did not get the shiny I want” or even “I went through hell and back for that shiny”. Those are not exactly hurting anyone or offending anyone but if I said “Damn you” or “Go to hell” then I understand that’s maybe basically crossing the line and ofcourse staff would see something wrong with that. I use damn and hell a lot and I don’t get why it is an issue? We’re grown people and even yet the game is for 13+ and I’ve also seen thousands of teenagers say hell and damn around the globe. Same even goes for lmao (laughing my ass off) when ass isn’t that bad unless it is used offensively but it is somewhat a swear word either way, I don’t mind if it is although I say lmao too sometimes.
spoilering this message too because I might be missing the point of forum topic 
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Your point Is valid Kyo but
We’re grown people
How you say It or you being 90 years old shouldn’t matter because It’s a rule either way. Having a no swearing rule when the game was ( apparently ) 13+ to begin with Is awkward but 13 Is still young and not everyone will or wants to swear at that age.
I may also be missing the point of the topic, for clarity my mindset Isn’t anything like “I want to swear or swearing to be more tolerated”, It’s “I want It to be consistent and for staff to stop pulling the ‘swear-Imply’ card when saying a word that Isn’t even bad In any way, while others can be”.
Even then still allowing words I mentioned Is fine, I have no problem with swearing. It just doesn’t make sense to me why those are allowed but unhurtful stand-In words are not lol.
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I think we at least need them more written in stone, because as many other people who have played over the years witness each new staff wave has brought in completely different standards for what is a swear and what isn’t and new staff in the past have suffered the most from this struggling on what should and shouldn’t issue a warning and so forth. Lmao literally wasn’t allowed for years but then bam suddenly it was, on the other hand I’ve seen people get warned for words I’ve seen people say for years warn free.
Also any swear that implies anything sexual being banned seems logical, but I mean a toggle-able chat censor could fix this until then I don't see why it would be absolutely necessary for it to be permitted considered the number of young teens on pmu
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the problem with staff giving out the “bad word” sheet players will just avoid saying them but find ways around them
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I mean personally I don’t want a “bad word sheet” I want a healthy medium between that and what we have. I think The Problem with PMU's Rules says everything I think on the matter, that thread is really an all-inclusive statement that includes issues mentioned on this thread.
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I’d prefer to not jump to assuming ill-intent or conscious neglect being the primary motivator here. But as I’ll get into in a moment I do agree the communication and consistent enforcement of the rules have been rather shaky over the years, and that it requires correcting.
That’s true; I’ve certainly been on the receiving end of a warning before for a word that was considered benign enough around where I live, but was apparently considered much harsher across the pond.
You don’t “need” to use most words; there are usually alternatives. And to my understanding, given legislation enacted in several countries where PMU is played regarding data collection of any kind, the youngest players that should be playing PMU are 13 or older. I’m not sure who we’re trying to protect here.
If you mute someone but they don’t even know what it is they should and should not say, what lesson is being taught exactly? For at the very least a not-insignificant minority of these mutes, the involved players likely would not have used restricted language if they actually knew it was considered inappropriate.
You’ve summed up my position in a single sentence; though I’d technically prefer the rule simply not exist due to our minimum age being 13 anyway, I’m more than happy to follow rules on “inappropriate” language so long as I can actually know what they are.
I mean, I think you just answered your own question here. And from how much you’ve had to say on the topic in your post, you seem to be finding a point to discuss it, no?
While this is certainly the sort of policy I would vouch for if it were up to me, this is not the model PMU follows. As long as I’ve been aware, the intention was that any use of a “swear” word, regardless of context, is not allowed. It doesn’t matter if you’re using it with hostile intent or not.
I think you’ve hit the heart of the problem here; as far as I understand, the rule isn’t so much kept vague to the playerbase intentionally, as it is not even clear to the staff team internally.
At the end of the day though, if we’re going to use a hard-line, context-ignoring set of rules for “swearing”, and the intent is not expose teenagers to “bad language…” Then why have we gone for 10 years having staff to send warnings like robots to anyone who trips the filter instead of just, you know, automatically hiding the offending message? If someone proceeds to “filter dodge” then you know for sure that they’re deliberately trying to circumvent the rules, yes? That should make it far easier to identify and deal with bad actors as a bonus.
I do want to reiterate though, I do not think characterizing current or past staff as “maintaining the current system because they enjoying doling out punishments” or anything to that extent is fair. I’m far more inclined to believe the issue is just more outdated policy and code in need of a fresh coat of paint.
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The swear rule has always been shaky with what is and isnt acceptable, and i absolutely agree there needs to be consistency and some kind of guideline. But honestly, having swears censored out automatically )which i think was discussed at one point?) or able to be removed may work too. i dunno, i never minded the rule but definitely agree it needs to be consistent
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Well, I don’t have problems with it, because I try to remain the most respectful in the language as my main one, without using any type of big words on it in the game. Yes, there can’t be children, but we are adults/teens, we have to be mature enough to be respectful at least where it needs to be. Are you going to say those words in front of your bosses of your jobs? to the clients or any formalities situations? We are old enough for this, and if you don’t like it, use [Redacted] like staff team and other players does.
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You don’t have problems with what, specifically? Because you seem to be putting forth a counterargument for removing the rule entirely, and nobody here is actively calling for the rule to be completely abolished. (The closest has been a few of us saying we wouldn’t mind it being gone) Rather, we are advocating for it to be less inconsistent in its enforcement by way of being more transparent with what is and isn’t allowed.
We could certainly discuss the merits of having the rule at all, but quite frankly I’ve jumped into enough rabbit holes over the past year. So I’m not going to personally call for that severe of a change.
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We do need to refine it. I agree. However…
I have no need of swears on the server, and altering it to uselessness will invite potential backlash from anyone offended over swearing or being sworn at. It’s a slippery slope, and it’s not that easy as you would think.
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Well, technically (by location and side) several words in english are swears in spanish, and by the same, I don’t say it in PMU. I agree the regular expressions that automatically sends you a warning message needs to be quite updated (Because like time lapses, new ways to swear or use expressions can be found out, and some aren’t directly to swear and be used to joke between good friends).
Also, my last comment was my personal point of view and what I do if I really need to hide a word, I’m not even suggesting something to the rule until now or want it removed (Because is needed at the end).
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@galaxystars, This is why I suggested a toggleable filter, that way you can choose whether to see the swear/curse words, it works for most other online games I don’t see why it wouldn’t work in PMU.
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I can certainly understand your plight; there will be backlash no matter what decision is ultimately reached–you can’t please everyone.
I personally think the solution that would best address the problems myself and others have regarding the current system, without opening the floodgates for language you find objectionable, is to replace the current filter alerting staff with one that instead simply censors the offending word/message. But, at the same time, I’d assume that requires adding yet another item to the pile of “things that require programming work,” so I can understand why it’s not been on the table yet.
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i think theres a fundamental issue with people understanding whats being said here
in the simplest terms possible, nothing needs to change with regards to not having swears in the server. we can keep a policy in which swearing is a mutable offense
however, we need CONCRETE GUIDELINES as to what IS and IS NOT a “swear.” what is explicitly considered a cuss. leaving it nebulous, imo, will only lead to a person’s subjective view of what is and isnt “too far” when considering whether to punish someone.
maybe you think saying “im pissed off” isnt a swear when moderating, but someone else on the team will and warn or mute a person for it. maybe “lmao” is too far, or not. maybe this post will get reported or something because i literally dont know what a swear is considered. ive gotten warned for saying stuff i didnt even know was considered foul language.
this leads to corruption because maybe a staff doesnt like a person and can just use the excuse that they said a cuss to mute them because the rules are too unclear and are enforced based on subjectivity rather than objectivity
we already can say “hell” and “damn” so where does the line cross into profanity? its not like theres a “cussing tier list” you can reference for this stuff. people just want clearer rules about whats considered a swear and what isnt
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I think accusations of deliberate exploitation and corruption are going a little far. It’s safer to assume ignorance over malice unless there is convincing evidence of the latter, and tossing around accusations like that is only going to put the people you’re accusing on the defensive and make them less likely to be willing to give any ground.
I would certainly like to know where the line is myself, as…
…Doesn’t exactly give us a whole lot of information.
@galaxystars It may seem self-evident from your perspective, but please humor me. To avoid us players making any further assumptions about the reasons behind the rule existing, and thus offering solutions that don’t actually solve the problem or ultimately undermine you and the rest of the team’s intentions, could you clarify the goal of PMU’s rules regarding profanity?
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i miswrote in my post. i meant to say that “it CAN lead to corruption”
not so much implying any of the current staff are bad or biased people, but i want future proofing because there have been staff who have misused their powers in the past.
i think leaving the definition of a cuss so ambiguous gives us a “slippery slope” in the opposite way of how people in the thread are claiming. i think it can lead to the definition being used however someone in charge sees fit on a case by case basis and the fact that its undefined makes me worry its going to lead to issues in the future
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I think most of us are mostly if not completely in agreement with you there, who are you suggesting is claiming the inverse?
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example a.
example b.
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Aye, the clarification is appreciated. I’d thought nobody had pitched the censor-dodging argument against transparency, but clearly I’m blind and need to re-read the thread again as Chrollo’s post slipped my mind.
That said, I don’t think Fennes’ post is arguing ambiguity is important? As I understood it, she was suggesting more that she didn’t want to relax or abolish the swear ban; not that she felt transparency in the rule was a slippery slope.
Players accidentally tripping the filter due to a word slip or just not knowing where the line is drawn is one thing, but anyone deliberately trying to bypass a filter cannot claim ignorance. It should, in theory, actually make it far easier to identify and deal with players who are knowingly acting in bad faith.
If you have someone say, harassing another player with an otherwise “clean” choice in words, player reports and moderators watching chat can deal with them just fine, like they would with any other chat-related rule. The same applies if people are swearing at each-other with deliberately-misspelled curse words, they’re not suddenly invisible and impossible for mods to deal with just because the script doesn’t deal with them automatically.
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