Dungeon Ideas & Concepts [Discussion]

Greetings, fellow players~ :la:

As the subject suggests, this thread is about dungeon ideas and concepts. It’s an addition to this thread (It became kinda outdated due to the expansion of our dungeon pool.) The staff rely heavily on input from players, for dungeon creation, and irregular communication can often lead to misdirected output. So, the point of this thread is for you players to tell us what kind of dungeons you like, and why. If you have any sort of interesting mechanism ideas, or dungeon concepts, please do share them! The following factors may help you come to a conclusion.

  • Location
  • Stories & Bosses
  • Puzzles
  • NPC Structure
  • Reward Yield
  • General “enjoyability”

[You don’t HAVE to include these points, but it would be much appreciated if you do~]

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Please do not:

  • Criticize others’ opinion in this thread.
  • Attempt to demotivate or otherwise discourage anyone.
  • Suggest recruits for personal interest.

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Here’s my person opinion! (It may help you get started…~)

Note: Do feel free to include the overworld, friendly NPC, or any other aspect of dungeons. It’s not necessary your ideas will be directly implemented, but they may help stimulate more concepts for future content.

Thank you for your time~

Ok this sounds fun so here are some suggestions~

-Have recruitable legendaries spawn in dungeons when you have the Mystery Part and Guidmaster rank. (well any restrictions are fine just have them spawn)

-Make trip traps, the move knock off, and theif moves de-equip items against players, also have the thief moves only steal items when used against npcs.

-Have kecleon shops appear in the dungeons and if you steal an item they would start to mass spawn, maybe have them spawn every 2 seconds (they give 1 exp per kill) They would be level 90 with maxed buffs and have a 1% kecleon egg drop rate with only the moves Round, Skill Swap and Incinerate.

-This can be a mechanism for a future dungeon. Have there be 1 switch that is needed to open the door but if you step off the switch then the door closes. To get past this the person would need a second player to open the door. They would have to stay behind and ultimately escape.

-This mechanism is a combination of seafloor and gritty hollow. Have there be 20 floors that go back and forth endlessly (up 20 floors, down the same 20 floors, and repeat) the only way to get past this would be a secret room that has a 5% rate. However each time you repeat the cycle the odds of it appearing increase by 2% so they would have to repeat going up and down 20 floors until a secret room appears to continue.

-Have there be a boss rush type dungeon. There are 100 rounds with the pokemon levels starting at lv20 and increasing by 1 every round. Every 10 rounds you can heal and continue or leave with a deluxe box that corresponds with the amount of rounds they beat (ie: 20 rounds gives you a dawn stone while 80 rounds give you a miracle chest)

-Have there be sealed doors that will only open when an invisible pokemon in the floor is defeated. (for fun the floor can have a low wind timer and the invisible pokemon can be a non-aggressive ghost type ;D)

-The obligatory level 1, no items, 1 pokemon 99 floor dungeon.

-Not a dungeon idea but have level 32 tentacool spawn in the overworld sea to make it less barren. Also have there be a 5% chance to spawn a level 100 buffed tentacruel that drops an item that is needed for a future dungeon (rain weather is optional but makes the battle so much more dramatic)

-PvP dungeons where the players can kill each other, or team up with each other (maybe both?)

-Going off the PvP dungeon idea have there be a pokemon that drops a key that is needed to open a door (only 1 player can enter) The twist is that it spawns once every 5 minutes and the players have to kill each other during the 5 minutes to increase their chances of killing the pokemon.

-Have Forlorn Tower make a comeback in pmu7, however add in pokemon that have the move magic room.

Well thats enough ideas for one day, have fun

Some time ago I made up a dungeon called Darkened Path, a basic drawing of the entrance can be found on my dA and the PMU group.
• Location
Hidden within Archford, or beyond the entrance to PBA (like a wall collapsed and revealed it in the overworld)
• Stories & Bosses
The dungeon has been sealed for eons, prime for exploring and testing one’s skills. Kinda like Tanern Chambers.
Mid-boss would be a mob boss, with various ghost and dark types. status problems and the leader would have embargo.
Final boss is a mega sableye
• Puzzles
It would have the same feel as TC, except a bit more confusing, large rocks blocking ways and needing RockSmash to break. There will not be any fake exits.
• NPC Structure
still thinking this one out
outside-a ghost or dark type pokemon may be outside the entrance, warning that the pokemon in there are very strong and frightening
before final boss- one of the residents of winden, grassroot, tanren, or archford may be there, weak from being defeated by mega sableye, and warns the player that the pokemon is stronger than others of its kind…and barely resembles its own species (going with the idea that mega evolution is a long forgotten thing, and this is the only place this NPC has seen a mega evolution)
• Reward Yield
PBA eggs on various floors
uncommon tms on various floors
random mega stone after beating mega sableye (how megastones may be obtained in-game, they would be trade-able as to obtain the stone you want)
rare powerful TM drop from mid-boss
• General “enjoyability”
If you enjoy TC, this would be similar, or if you need to grind, you might get a lot of exp/good items.

While I don’t have much in the way of mechanics and such, I think having Dynamo Sands in PMU7 would be pretty neat. Minus the vitamin drops and all.

I feel hyped to share!

[spoilerFavourite dungeons and why:hy5roisv]Collectables instead of RNG. Dragon"s Descent. I set my goal: Dratini, knowing even on my 15th of the same dungeon, that every single run is worth it! Royal Gems gave me a much more positive experience than having to rely on RNG to achieve something. Well, maybe someone would say “Hey, they repeated DD, they have run out of ideas!” But I wouldn"t think that, because good concepts should be repeated.

So many types! Sky Fortress. I asked a friend “What are your favourite dungeons?” Sky Fortress came up partly because of type variation! And I agree, SF welcomes a significant number of different Pokémon to grind well, and when I train, I like to vary and not just grind in a single dungeon every time. Alernatively, you could have a large variety of types in the same place, and then I mean more varied than for example Voltaic Rainforest. The point is welcome a larger number of Pokémon!

Teamwork and friendship. Harmonic Tower. Every succesful HT run feels like one of the most rewarding things on PMU. Also. it"s such a great way of making friends with more experienced players, because it"s set level and they"re often just happy that someone joins so we could have a full party. Unfortunately, dungeons like this don"t work well with grinding, hard to find a full party with levels just like yours!

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[spoilerLoose concepts I like!:hy5roisv]Beat up. Makes dungeon gameplay extra exciting!

Shortcut to finished dungeon. Example Seafloor Ruins shortcut Dive spot!

Alternative dialogue route. Small and nice touch in the Raikou battle. It also makes you a little motivated, “What if I answer differently on my next run hunting Tynamo?”

Regice! Random boss spawns spices up your dungeon experience, especially if it has a rare drop of a good item!

Quick and Wide guard. To encourage use of Pokémon who do not learn moves with good range!

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[spoilerThings I like less…:hy5roisv]Required Pokémon and moves. For example flying type in SF and rock smash in Mt Moon. People who wish to Exp All could get a bit annoyed. Also, some missions are escort!

Low level dungeons. Has already been brought up and I agree! Dungeon levels below 30 falls under this category. People spend very little time in these dungeons because they do not yield desirable items, recruits or experience. But other than that, level ranges are rather balanced. Perhaps another training spot in level 50s designed for training would be nice, since that"s the only level range I remember having few options to go for training. (This was written when Voltaic Rainforest and Deserted Tomb just got released).

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Overall, a desirable addition to the PMU dungeons would have large variety of NPC Pokémon types but where there are also details and collectables which give a more rewarding experience!

I have a quick comment and what will probably be an unpopular opinion. It has less to do with a specific dungeon idea and more with what I think would be a better development mentality when it comes to dungeons, as well as a suggestion to re-evaluate what I think is a now over-tired approach to PMU’s content creation. All of it relates to who the staff as a team are trying to appeal to (mostly established players), how that might not be great for PMU in its current state, etc.

Backloading most of the good/viable/new/wanted Pokemon or items as “event only” or “lategame content only” cuts out casual and new players. In other words, catering to only temporary events or small groups can end up in a vicious cycle where you’re developing for “the next cool thing”, which will keep people’s interest for a week but ultimately not make a big splash in the long run/is not sustainable.

I noticed over time that as soon as a new set of pokemon/new pokemon is added to the game, a dungeon is made to house them. However, this feels odd, because several of those Pokemon are generally common in the games and anything worth getting is generally backloaded to the endgame or as an extremely hard spawn. I’d like to see the intention of the games for those Pokemon taken more into account here.

Having desired pokemon in the middle-range of rarity, and a very sporadic few on the low-end lets players stay encouraged. If you put most of the desirable Pokemon in the “haha pray to your preferred deity” category, people will try for a month and then give up or view it as an undesirable obstacle. So, here’s where I don’t want a misunderstanding to take place: I think high difficulty ceilings are necessary and I think right now PMU actually has a decent amount of content allotted there to support it for years. Now it just needs more somewhere before/between that to make it balanced and keep people hooked more easily.

On that note, I’d like to see more midgame-oriented areas for the 40-60 level range and better support for early players by giving them a more smooth transition into the lategame. This means clearer directions of progress (afaik Skylift is still outclassing everything in the 30-50 range and no I won’t shut up about that), regions that scale with level (instead of having a level 15 dungeon right next to a level 60-70 dungeon cough Winden *cough), and a better direction for HMs (Cut is useless because we can just fly over the rivers immediately). It’s off-putting, looks and feels kind of sloppy/pointless, and it doubtlessly turns people away from this game. On top of having more support for mid-range desirable Pokemon, there needs to be more love for early and mid-range progression.

I realize this will actually involve redoing or moving around existing dungeons, but given the fact that it seems your player retention rate is low, being able to have new players stick around should probably be a priority. It would also help balance the game into something more sustainable. Instead of being a project that is dependent on just adding new stuff in a harsh bid to keep existing players invested because the community is “top-heavy”, you’ll have a balanced and healthy cycle where new players can replace old players once the game’s content has played out its natural lifespan for your players.

(Apologies if anything I’ve said is outdated, I haven’t hopped on in a couple of months.)

I completely agree with what CheckeredZebra says. I’d also like to add on that PMU needs to have a major overhaul though it seems irrelevant to the topic. For a long while, I’ve seen the game only develop because the staff team adds new dungeons, but that really only keeps the players interested for a short while. It eventually becomes a routine of: New dungeon gets introduced -> Players stay interested for a short amount of time -> Players become bored or grind dungeons -> Repeat.

I feel like PMU could have a lot more than just that. It really becomes repetitive, and I personally feel that lots of players will eventually quit and not stay around because of how tedious things will become. There’s only soo much you can work for in PMU, and it becomes boring fast. What PMU needs is some other content besides dungeons. For example, while PMU doesn’t have a solid or much of a storyline, it would be cool if the story was developed more. There could be several story arcs, or at least a background story to get people into a dungeon or a series of connected dungeons. There could be more more interesting events, like when people are given missions or quests that require some exploring in the overworld, or rewards for completing certain objectives in the game. There could be random daily events, like unusual spawns, or anything really. PMU just needs to create something more interesting that makes people want to play instead of repetitive dungeon releasing.

I realize that when I pitch in all these ideas that not all of this is possible. I realize that we do not have many solid programmers that can make these things to happen. While that is an issue, PMU really needs to fix it’s staff team. I heard recently that the team’s not doing as well as it could be. While I am no longer a staff, I feel like part of the reason has to do with the lack of organization and structure in the team. I heard that many of the admins were busy or inactive, which is a huge problem. The admins need to be around often enough so that they can direct and pitch in new ideas on how the project can grow. I’m not targeting any staff currently, but I used to only see the recruits we got during last fall on often to moderate and work on the game. Another issue is with the direction the team is heading. It feels like the team’s losing a sense of what it wants to do. The only thing that seems to be happening nowadays is dungeon development, which doesn’t take too much organization and super heavy coordination to do. I know I seem to be criticizing the team, but I honestly want the current staff team to have an overhaul. A team that communicates more. A team that can have active directors. Anyways, It would just be cool if PMU wasn’t soo heavily dungeon oriented development.

I really really really really really agree with all of this. Dude you just deciphered all of PMU’s problems better than anyone ever has. I could never verbally put together all of this game’s flaws collectively like you did. You even correlated how one of these flaws, can correlate to another. I also love the examples you told us on how the game can be better, and I COMPLETELY AGREE. It would be AWESOME, and would not be repetitive. These ideas would NOT BE impossible to code or script. If our staff cannot dedicate themselves on being able to do more complicated implementations on the game, than what good will this game ever be?

Yeah, 100% agree with Zebra and Wiz.
It’s definitely true that PMU repeats itself. New Dungeon, Spam it, Get the Pokemon, Complain about minor things, then stop going to it and wait another few months for another dungeon to be made. (Excluding Voltaic Rainforest and Deserted Tomb, that’s like a one time thing.) Then back to standard PMU life, doing nothing for most people.
Sure, we have weekly events, but come on It’s every Sunday and the majority of the time it’s an event people don’t particularly like, such as Dodgeball. Is it too much to ask for events that the majority of people request, like Ice Breaker? No, that isn’t me saying that because I want it too. I actually enjoy dodgeball. You could even throw in new events too, but that’s asking for far too much.

Excuse me for going off road, but there’s also some things I’d like to discuss too.
Starting off with dungeons in general. It’s true that we had both Voltaic Rainforest and Deserted Tomb in which I understand and grateful for, but honestly, when are we ever going to see 2 dungeons released at similar times again? This has been happening since Mt. Skylift was released, back in 2011 iirc, and we had to wait MONTHS for a new dungeon. That’s a big reason why people leave. Progress is just ridiculously slow now and nothing interesting happens. Making a dungeon doesn’t take long, and I know that. Sure if it’s a long dungeon with some strange mechanisms like CCH, but people despised that place. My point is, I don’t see why it takes so freaking long for just 1 dungeon release. Never worth the wait and you lose players.

Going back to Wiz’s point about the staff team, once again I 100% agree.
Everytime you have these so called “staff changes”, it’s hardly a change, heck you made a freaking MOTD post and got people hyped, recruiting 2 new staff. One former staff and a new staff in general, not entirely sure why a MOTD post in-game was required for that especially with the former staff now going back on hiatus. (Which I have no issue with him for doing so and good luck to him). Anyways back on topic, everytime it happens nothing new changes. It’s always the same typical staff team who just look as if they don’t do anything. I can see myself getting a lot of hate for this, but yeah, I am criticizing the majority of the staff team. There’s only few that I believe, and trust me others will believe can actually call them self proper staff members who are staff for a reason. Kittu & Nuxl being one of them. The rest just disappear.

All we typically ask for is just something to happen occasionally on PMU but it never happens. It’s honestly disappointing and makes every staff member look lazy despite knowing some of the rules and stuff when you are staff, on the development side, but as far as I can tell, PMU is rapidly going downhill and it will lose lots of members. I don’t barely see new players stick either, but hey that’s not my problem.

Put some more thought into this.

My suggestion is kind of tedious, but it can be done in spurts and will make player progress much more smooth, compelling, and understandable. Between each major step toward this/a similar goal, staff could release a new dungeon/event for the lategame player’s interests.

Zeebrah’s suggestions on how to not confuse and lose tons of newbies all the time:

*)Have each region cater to a single HM. The first area can"t be left until the user gets Cut. Cut lets them go to another region. They can"t pass the 2nd region until they have rock smash. Repeat with all the HMs. Each region will cater to specific level ranges. Have each dungeon relate to a plot point. For example, you can"t enter the “Boss Dungeon” (The dungeon that gives the HM) until his goons in the other dungeons of that region are taken out.

[You could keep as many existing dungeons as possible, in fact, and just move them to whatever region"s level range fits best. This reduces the workload on staff, meaning only the over-world map(s) require serious redoing. This will lead to slightly smaller but more concise and organized regions, which will be friendlier to players in general without the loss of actual content. For regions that seem to lack dungeons, like the mid-range levels I was complaining about in an earlier post, add more. It"d be needed anyway and in fact could highlight some sneaky problems that weren"t as easy to see before.]

NOTE: Grassroot town could work as a central “hub” between all of these places, potentially like a center of a circle. This would let the community keep a unified place to hang out in, newbies and vets alike.

*)As others said, have a story. A simple example of one would be that the land of PMUtopia(?) is being invaded by another country and you have to “free” each region as you go along. You start in the smallest, least important region and eventually make your way up to PMUtopia"s capital by overcoming all obstacles set before you. You then explode their HQ and win the story, opening a final region. Or something.

The precise details don"t really matter, so long as the regions follow similar “unlocking” game mechanics. Story, even if it"s sort of thin, is compelling and gives players a sense of progress. I have a feeling that the HM system was supposed to do that, but it"s so borked + the regions are organized so sloppily that it falls flat and actually adds to the problem. You can even relate missions to the story somewhat, via the tried and true methods of “SOS” messages letting you visit new dungeons.

Through story and better region organization, players can be given direction for where to go next without a minimap. It can also introduce players to the world gradually in a way that is easier to absorb. Compare that with the situation PMU has right now, which boils down to “I"m lost in the first region wtf this is huge.” [Seriously. Look at how many big, empty areas so many regions have, likely to never be used. That gets people lost, wastes time, and just feels sloppy.] Currently, the only “progress” you feel like you are making in PMU involves personal goals as well, which can lead to people dropping the game like a rock if their goals are more lofty and involve high-rarity Pokemon. (If a person"s only motivation is to get a dragon team, they will start losing steam pretty quickly without other more realistic incentives/hooks/accomplishments existing for that player within the game.)

*)This is more minor, but make the dungeons have more defined weaknesses/advantages. For example, Snowveil Den in Winden has the following types iirc:
Normal (with Electric, Ice, a Recovery Move and normal stab moves)
Fighting/Psychic
Ice
Steel
Rock
Dark
Electric

That kind of design leaves much less room for strategic goodness and mostly only encourages brute forcing everything. It"s better to support multiple types of play (thus supporting multiple types of players) instead of mostly encouraging the style that involves tedious grinding. Later dungeons could have a larger mix of types to ramp up difficulty, but the design should still be thought-out. Is a dungeon filled with “Hits hard, dies easy” pokemon? What about tanks, or spawns with gimmicky moves that really sting when stacked up? (See: Encore + Grudge.) There are a lot of options here that will really help dungeons stand out from one-another better when there are interesting/diverse themes going on with most of them.

*) Kind of ties in with the last point, but distribute recruitable Pokemon in more meaningful ways, as already covered above. This means regardless of the region, people will come back to previous dungeons and look for exclusive super rare recruits. However, this should be balanced with a variety of rarities or “hunting tradeoffs” per dungeon.

[Ex: Let"s pretend Pikachu can be found in Dungeon A more easily than Dungeon B, but Dungeon A has more annoying, garbage spawns while Dungeon B also has a chance for additional other cool recruits. Suddenly the player has a meaningful choice…or at least the ability to change up the scenery if they get absolutely sick of one place.] There are tons of ways to approach the idea of dungeon recruitment be based on choosing between tradeoffs. It also lets you more easily re-use certain spawns if there is more subtlety between areas. There are a massive amount of ways you can approach dungeons if this is taken into consideration and allows you to use your resources more effectively/efficiently.

With the list above, you will fix:

*Confusing world that is easy to get lost in.
*Nonmotivating game progression: Story will get people from point A to point B.
*Demotivating lack of progress within personal goals: Story + more “Middle ground” rarities or even a few cool common pokemon will maintain the feeling that you’re getting somewhere.
*Info dumping. By splitting up regions and dungeons, you can control when players are introduced to certain game mechanics, such as held items, reviving, status moves, recruitment, and traps without the need of a tedious tutorial. Instead of Buneary telling you everything, dungeons can introduce aspects of the game one by one. This includes later dungeons teaching the player about ghosts walking through walls and hidden eggs/tiles.

Thoughts?

EDIT: I just realized this entire topic was necro’d by Whimsy. Ohwell, I still stand by my words. >:0