Event tokens: Outside of the core gameplay loop

Gems, crystals, and globes. Regardless of your stance on these items balance-wise, I think we can all agree they are some of the most effective and powerful items in the game.

And yet you don’t actually obtain them by playing the game at all. Instead, they’re tied to a currency earned in silly weekly events that are, at least to my understanding, intended to be a fun little side event every week. Not a core gameplay mechanic tied heavily to progression.

But by simply being the only method out of HC to acquire event tokens, suddenly attendance is not something people do because they want to enjoy a silly, for fun event with the staff team. They do it because it’s the only source of the best items in the game.

On the flipside, this has led to practices I know the staff team is unhappy with. Players waiting until they’ve gotten their tokens only to leave the event, for example. And recently, more and more measures have been put in place to try and “reward” players with extra tokens if they stick around, or conversely not hand out tokens to players who don’t. And while this make make sense on the surface, when you start to unravel the mess that is Ludicolo’s shop it starts to fall apart.

Measures involving altering token distribution to encourage full event participation are a band-aid solution at best, and downright harmful at worst. Rather than solving the worrying entanglement of for-fun events and the most powerful items in the game, it exacerbates the problem. Instead of increasing event attendance by making sure the events themselves are enjoyable in a vacuum–a bribe is essentially being offered.

I understand that with event tokens already having a very well-established value, it’s difficult to simply remove the gems/globes/crystals from Ludicolo’s shop. But this doubling-down on trying to remove the ability for players to take their tokens and run is ultimately doing more harm than good.

So I propose that the current event tokens in the game be converted to a new currency, (say, “elemental shards” or something) that can be used to buy gems/crystals/globes at the same rate as existing event tokens, and a new “event token” currency can be handed out at events. These new event tokens should ideally be used to purchase solely cosmetic items, like music changers and disguises, which have no effect on gameplay.

I know something like the above isn’t possible to implement overnight. In the short-trem, a band-aid solution is probably necessary. For that, I personally think rewarding tokens for just showing up regardless of participation is understandably not optimal, but it is better than the alternative of a borderline bribe to sit through a largely-unrelated sidegame you may or may not enjoy. (Awarding tokens to the winners of competitive events is also totally fine, IMO)

So these items are just like coins in Mario Party, Very simple but very rewarding.

This week’s bonus event of Icebreaker was intended to be just that - an extra surprise for those who have been patiently waiting for Holiday Cave and stuck around for the full length of Confusion Race. A bonus event that was only possible because @Pencil went out of her way to remap the entire thing for everyone as soon as she could.

We don’t plan on maintaining altered token distribution to force participation. The bonus event today was done under no obligation.

To be frank, hosting some of these events hasn’t been very fun and I imagine participating in them isn’t always sunshine and rainbows either. When something that’s supposed to be fun for all becomes a requirement, it only feels like the right decision is to stop the weekly tradition for a while and look at a different approach.

I do understand where you’re coming from. I’m not sure I agree with the items in ludicolo’s shop being tied behind event currency in the first place either. At the same time, if gems, crystals, and globes are to be put behind a shop, there needs to be a way to reliably get the new currency. That’s something that’s not covered in this suggestion other than relying on the existing supply of tokens that the currency would be converted from.


Unfortunately, that bonus event also rewarded a large sum of event tokens, and was only available to those who slogged through the entire confusion race well after they knew they’d already lost.

However, to my understanding the icebreaker puzzle has been left open without a reward? That I think is a much better solution that allows everyone to enjoy the puzzle at their own pace if it’s their cup of tea, and not feel obligated to participate for more of the limited-availability event tokens if it isn’t.

What were changes such as locking the doors to the auction house intended for, in that case?

I entirely agree. If staff are hosting them out of obligation, and players are attending only because they need the event tokens, then it sounds to me like we have a broken system on our hands.

I will admit this is the real tough nut to crack, and frustratingly right at the heart of the problem. Implementing some way of farming gems/crystals/globes or the currency current event tokens are converted into is no small task, hence why I was reluctant to start offering up suggestions as to the specifics of how to do it before we were all on the same page as to what we want a new system to accomplish.

For all of the event token shop’s problems, it does have one “upside” of sorts, and that is the fact its wares have been among the few items in the game to not bomb in value due to over-saturation, as the amount of event tokens entering the game is much more limited than anything farmable with no upper limit. If this new currency is too easily obtainable, then the value and rarity of gems/crystals/globes will crash within weeks.

Mad previously tried to include the icy crystal as a reward at the end of Iceberg Adrift, but even having to essentially clear 2 dungeons to get 1 chance at the box, it was still way too easily farmable and a bunch flooded the market leading to it being removed again.

Ideally, just like they do in PMD2 I’d like to see some sort of progression involving the type silks and dusts, but many of those have pretty skewed rarities right now as well. Another option is more dungeon-specific currencies in type-related dungeons, but the problem with dungeon currencies is they deincentivize running dungeons in a party, which I’m sure you can agree is very bad for an MMO. (This is something I have some ideas on how to fix, namely having undroppable currencies cloned between all party members when picked up, but that’s something for another thread I think)

And all of the above is ignoring the fact that gems/crystals/globes are flagrantly overpowered, (and have been so since way before even the gem/crystal split IMO) which is an entirely different beast that will be a nightmare to tackle in its own right.

…And then after that’s been dealt with, I think the fact many status conditions are far more dangerous than they should be will likely become a problem if the equally centralizing countermeasures are suddenly less of a “set it and forget it” solution.

But at the end of the day “broken checking broken” isn’t an excuse to leave a messy mechanic (or cluster of mechanics) in place. I will admit I don’t have even a significant portion of the answers, but I think it’s important to acknowledge and understand how deep this mess runs, and also start seriously talking about how to fix it. (And if this was something that would be better placed in another forum section, I apologize)

I don’t understand the latter bit here on leaving it open without a reward. I do see what you’re getting at on the first part. The fact that to get into icebreaker attendees would have had to stay on the confusion race finish map could have been communicated more clearly in that moment.

From myself and on the behalf of the rest of the staff team, I apologize that it wasn’t as clear as it should have been. We’ll continue to improve on how we handle these things.

The doors to the auction held on the 8th of December were never actually locked. If we’re referring to the most recently held one, then it’s a fair question. It was likely a result of the staff who hosted reading back on the previous messages to get an idea of how it’s supposed to be held.

In either case though, it could be said that locking the auction house is no different than missing the opening for any of the other weekly events which all require an event key. It’s still possible to leave from the auction house whether the entrance is locked or not.

It’s certainly acknowledged, and I’d more than love to talk about it in detail – but once we have more hands on deck so that after those discussions, we can take actionable steps to resolve those problems.

I’m working on staff applications, and it’s what I would have continued working on during the free time I had today, but I also needed to help with the weekly event. My plate is often full and new projects and tasks pop up all the time, so I appreciate the patience.

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If that wasn’t the case then I was misinformed. Should’ve double-checked, my bad!


Noted. Thank you for clearing that up!

That then begs the question of if closing closing the gates is even necessary for most events, but I think I’ve spiraled off on enough loosely related topics already, so that’s probably one for another time.

I realize re-reading this section of my post that it comes off far more accusatory than I intended, and so I must apologize. The various components of the problems surrounding gems/crystals/globes have absolutely been acknowledged plenty of times before, and I did not mean to insinuate otherwise. Rather, I meant to imply I believe some discussion on the big picture could be productive, as the problem seemingly runs deeper than I, personally, concluded previously.

I may sound like a bit of a broken record by this point, but you have gone above and beyond when it comes to both your contributions in both the background workings of the game and communication with myself and the rest of the playerbase. I do not mean to rush you or otherwise downplay the significant time investments you have made for the sake of the game. I apologize if some of my feedback has been unduly harsh in tone.

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You may be overthinking it. Even if it seems accusatory to you, I personally didn’t see it that way while conducting my response. No real harm done.

If you or others want to chime in and discuss the big picture further in this thread, that’s more than encouraged. :loveampharos:

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Though it only addresses one part of the problem, I had an idea.

My main concern with making the new currency for gems/crystals/globes farmable was that there would be no weekly cap. Andy has mentioned an interest in login rewards as (what I assume was) a joke before, and sarcastically proposed or otherwise I think there’s actually something worth working with there.

How about a dungeon you can only run once a week? This allows the flow of gems/crystals/globes entering the economy to be kept at a similar rate to what it is like now, while also tying them to an actual core gameplay mechanic. It could be designed in a way such that the difficulty climbs as you progress, and every X floors has a break room that rewards tokens.

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Random Idea: Instead of the currently somewhat dead lottery a new npc could be used to sell a weekly key to players to a dungeon where tokens are available since the lottery already has a day requirement it is already kind of set up to do a weekly event of sorts meaning less work would have to go into changing it + at least the meowth would have a purpose again :slight_smile: