Family Item Changes

I believe these are family items that should be changed to accommodate players. This will benefit these mons in terms of training, and combat.

This is referring to the “Recover Upon Hit” items.

Torterra [ Forest Torc ]
Grass -> Ice

Lapras [ Mystic Scarf ]
Fire -> Grass

Lucario [ Ravage Ring ]
Psychic -> Fire

These are main PMD items, which from my experience, causes debate among players and staff. I argue that certain individuals fail to realize that PMU is indeed based off the PMD games, however, PMU is placed within an MMO setting. Basically, PMU is its own game. There’s certain elements in the PMD main games that simply inconvenience players in PMU, and don’t suit this particular setting.

Additionally, changes have been made to other main PMD family items to accommodate players.

Forretress and Scizor’s family items use to recover from Flying-type moves. They were changed to Fire-type moves, their 4x weakness.

Most fairies’ family items were changed to accommodate their new typing. Most now recover from Poison-type, and Steel-type moves.

Now, this next one is a sticky subject. This family item was requested to be changed numerous times, even when this mon wasn’t released yet. It was requested even more upon release (From what I’ve been told. I wasn’t around).

Garchomp [ Mach Scarf ]
Dragon -> Ice

Garchomp is a difficult pokemon to obtain in PMU, and rightfully so. Being a pseudo-legendary, some individuals seem to argue this change will make it, dare I say, “OP”.

Referring to my statement above regarding ‘changing main PMD items’, this would benefit PMU players. Similar to Salamence and Dragonite, this would negate a 4x weakness, proving to be more useful than a 2x weakness. Additionally, all other non-legendary dragons (except Hydregion and Kingdra, which is understandable in their cases) have a family item to negate Ice-type moves.

These are my own, and ideas I’ve gathered from others. What do you all think?

Agreed that some family items need some changing. There are a few listed that boost movement speed, if they haven’t been changed already they should change attack speed since the crystals now boost movement speed.

Though I don’t think every fam item needs to negate a x4 weakness. As long as it negates a weakness I think it’s good. Lucario’s item negating Psychic is silly since it is neutral towards Psychic, the change to fire is good since that’s a type it’s actually weak too. However, I think changing items such as Garchomp’s to Ice is a bit over done. I think the dragon healing is enough but that’s just me. It also would make it more unique than Salamence or Dragonite and have something that sets it apart.

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That’s an interesting proposal. Could use others’ opinions on this.

I disagree. You mentioned changing movement speed items in your first paragraph, due to the new crystal items available. With that logic, in my opinion, Garchomp’s ‘unique’ recovery item is a disadvantage in PMU’s setting, and not beneficial to players.

Using your own point, the Dragon Globe exists. Additionally, Garchomp is obtained in a difficult, high level dungeon, with a grind fest locked behind it. Certainly players who reach this point of the game can afford a Dragon Globe, if they so choose.

Most family items lean towards a 4x weakness, due to them being more reliable, and useful.

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I agree that some family items need to be reworked to facilitate gameplay


I think the only movement speed ones that should be changed are Blaziken’s and Sharpedo’s and any others that exist for a mon that already gets the Ability Speed Boost If they do. The movement speed family Items are good for people who can’t afford Crystals, especially since there’s nobody ever selling them currently.

As for the Initial topic I agree.


I wasn’t aware that the Dragon Globe negates the Dragon weakness, in which case I agree (to an extent) but it might be a lot of work to change these items. There are a lot of Electric type Pokemon who’s family item heals them from ground type moves.

I want to agree but I also think there is some niche value between choosing a party wide type immunity (globe) vs healing with a family item.

I’m not against changing family items so they don’t serve a similar to purpose to globes but it becomes more of an issue what to do with the family items. Grass/Ice/Ect. types family items can be changed so they don’t conflict with globes since those types have multiple weaknesses (e.g Abomasnow’s family item heals him off of Fire, and both the Ice/Grass globe negate fire, so his fam item can be changed to Rock)

but the issue is most prominent with Electric & Normal types who only have one weaknesses. Both of their globes already negate it and there are several pure Electric & Normal type Pokemon who’s family item heals off of their one weakness.

So maybe change the pure typed Pokemon 3* family items to have some other sort of effect? Something to do with inflicting attackers with status conditions or certain benefits under certain weather conditions?

We don’t exactly have to use effects exclusive to EoS either, I see nothing wrong with coming up with unique concepts but I think the issue is just finding out what would need to be changed in order to avoid conflict ion with globes. Again, I’m not against this change but I think it’d be a lot of work.

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Just for reference (as long as control + F worked properly on Bulbapedia’s page as far as wording goes) I have a list of all the Pokemon who have one weakness and both their globe & fam item negate/heal off of it.

Ground type Weakness:

Raichu, Electrode, Electivire, Ampharos, Manectric, Luxray, Pachirsu, Skuntank, & Drapion.

Mostly Electric Pokemon but Skuntank and Drapion are included too because of their dual typing.

Fighting type:

Raticate, Persian, Lickilicky, Blissey, Porygon-Z, Snorlax, Furret, Ambipom, Ursaring, Linoone, Slaking, Exploud, and Delcatty.

These are the Pokemon who’s family item doesn’t really have a choice in terms of “change the healing to another type”

There are a lot of unique effects that don’t used that much for example one that allows Psychic type moves to hit SE on Darks, Normal & Fighting moves to hit SE on Ghost. Possibly create one that allows Electric type moves to hit SE damage on Ground type Pokemon.

We just need ideas for changes I guess. Also this 100% my own bias but make Raichu’s Zapper Scarf increase Attack Speed or Evasion in the rain please.

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With that logic can’t you say that the items that negate weaknesses and heal are a cheap alternative to people who can’t afford globes?

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Yes, these particular mons only have 1 weakness. Thus, their ‘Recovery’ item negates that single weakness. However, I believe you misunderstood my post. I’m suggesting a change to Torterra, Lapras, Lucario, and Garchomp’s recovery items.

Torterra, Lapras, and Lucario’s recovery items aren’t very effective, due to them currently negating a neutral typing, and not a weakness.

My suggestion for Garchomp’s recovery item is to increase its usefulness, by negating a 4x weakness, similar to its fellow pseudo-dragons, instead of a 2x weakness.

I agree that they should consider changing Blaziken and Sharpedo’s speed boost family items due to their new ability.

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Why can’t we fix all then? You pointed out that Dragon Globe covers Garchomp’s dragon weakness while it’s family item does the same with the added benefit of healing. If we’re fixing that issue for Garchomp why not fix the same issue for all the Pokemon?

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Because this particular post is regarding those 4 pokemon.

Additionally, most of the electric and normal type mons you mentioned have a single weakness. Thus, their recovery items are understandable.

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Right I understand that the post was made with intention to address those specific Pokemon but if we’re on the topic of changing family items for four specific Pokemon I see nothing wrong with addressing the issues with other Pokemon.

Staff are more likely to make a change if it affects a wide variety of Pokemon as opposed to a select few.

So it’s going back on the Dragon Globe / Mach Scarf change. If we’re Garchomp’s Mach Scarf to heal off of Ice because Garchomp is already protected by Dragon Globe. Why aren’t we going to change all the Pokemon’s items I mentioned to something else because their weakness is already covered by their globe?

Yes they have one weakness to choose from and it’s why I think it’s difficult to fix. If we’re changing family items to benefit a Pokemon like you want with Garchomp, it’s just not fair to ignore the rest because “well those Pokemon have one weakness so it sucks to be them” There was a topic about pure types being gimped in terms of dust and silk stat boosts earlier. I think a similar mindset of trying to buff something that is at a disadvantage coiuld be used.

Granted, I fully think these items are still fine as they are right now, since they provide a cheap alternative to globes (with the niche benefit of healing as opposed to negating damage).

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As I’ve mentioned before, my post is regarding 4 specific mons.

Torterra, Lapras, and Lucario would benefit from their items negating a weakness, rather than a neutral typing.

My suggestion for Garchomp’s recovery item isn’t just because of the Dragon Globe. I believe it would be more useful to PMU users if its item negated a 4x weakness.

It seems you’re persistent in having the mons you mentioned changed. I suggest making another post regarding them, and gathering people’s thoughts on the matter.

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I don’t think there is anything wrong with using this thread though? It’s not like the thread title is specific to those four you initially mentioned. I’d rather not flood the board with threads when this one could easily suffice. They’re both based on the topic of family items so what’s wrong?

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The title would be too long if I were to do that.

I’d prefer if only these 4 were discussed, due to the reasons I’ve already mentioned.

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I believe Stormy has a point, actually. If we’re going to advocate for tweaking specific pokemons’ family items, then I think the more important discussion to have first is by what method to re-assign the typing of absorb items in general. While I agree with the 4 pokemon you’ve pointed out, I don’t think quashing the discussion on the bigger picture is warranted here.

There are a lot of cases where the type-absorb family items overlap with globes and the like, as well as some cases where the quad weaknesses are ignored, and of course the few that actually protect against only neutral damage. Where do we draw the line? Should the priority be something like x4 weakness not protected by globe > x2 weakness not protected by globe > x4 weakness protected by globe > x2 weakness protected by globe > weakness a pre-evolution has but not one the fully evolved pokemon shares? Should abilities like Levitate, heatproof etc. be taken into account? I don’t think it’s fair to just start listing off our personal favorites and ignoring the rest.

Until we know what the actual “rules” we want to set are, it’s hard to consistently judge what should and should not be adjusted. Since as you mentioned, Scizor and Forretress have had their items changed, I do agree that there’s precedent for further alterations.

The problem with this though is that, unless the weather required to grant the speed is different from the relevant crystal, these items have 0 utility later on in the game, which hurts their potential for progression as they just kind of fall off.

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Your reasoning is understandable. I became defensive when Stormy decided to shove their suggestions in here - my apologies.

On an interesting note, Garchomp is the only official PMD mon thats recovery item doesn’t lean towards a 4x weakness. Along with Scizor and Forretress.

From looking at the newer generation mons (Mons without family items in the PMD main games), most recovery family items created by PMU lean towards the bigger weakness.

However you’re correct. Now with other items to negate other weaknesses, status, and provide speed (Globes, Gems, and Crystals), it’s difficult to pinpoint a specific priority. The best way to approach the matter, in my opinion, would be to review the pokemon at hand, and pick the best option available. Yet, the ‘best’ option varies between individuals. Some may prefer to negate one weakness over the other, while others prefer attack speed over movement speed.


That’s an awful lot of work per pokemon, which was why I suggested a priority-based system, picking the highest on this list:

  1. A double weakness the pokemon’s globe(s) don’t already cover
  2. A normal weakness the pokemon’s globe(s) don’t already cover
  3. A double weakness the pokemon’s globe(s) already cover
  4. A normal weakness the pokemon’s globe(s) already cover
  5. A non-weakness the pokemon’s pre-evolution was weak to

(A case could be made for inserting 5 at 3 instead, with the caveat of it being for a non-globed type).

This should ensure pokemon are assigned an item that patches a hole in their defenses for anyone who spends the time and effort acquiring their item, rather than some pokemon winding up big winners from the system and others just stacking so many immunities to the same type they’d make Air Balloon Rotom-F proud.

I also think such a list could be compiled by a player (or multiple players) to save the staff team valuable time in manually going through and applying whatever rules are decided upon, should a conclusion be reached that staff like.


I agree with how you sorted the priorities. It would certainly save staff time when it comes to changing, and creating family items. As well as, hopefully, pleasing the community in the process.

This made me laugh, holy.

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I think the system Leo came up with is a good one in terms of priority. I think the only issue (Potentially, assuming this all gets addressed by staff) is what to do about Electric, Normal, and Poison/Dark types.

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