/ignore command round 2

[Pakawaka]

Why isnt this still on PMU?
Like what are you doing? Spamming /explode every 5 mins? really?

[Agunimon]

Was talking /w Nuxl. Lemme TLDR our points.

Pro /ignore command.

• Less strain on Moderators.
• Immediate action.
• Defense measure against global arguments / flame wars.
• Players can exit conversations of their choice.
• Helps players (actually) ignore people.
• Filters the chat.

Anti /ignore command.

• Limited communications. (Take into account PMU’s size.)
• /ignore (s) are forever. (Can be reinstated if timed.)
• No forgiveness.
• “Shadowbanning” can occur.
• Personal grievances enhanced. (A group of people or a person intentionally ignoring a person.)
• Unintended usages.

I’m sure there are a lot more, but here’s what I remember. My personal dilemma is between:

Less moderation requirement + Player choice vs. Lack of communication + No reconsideration.

Sure, it’s a case by case system – and one that has worked in a multitude of MMOs, but PMU is so small that ignoring a handful of active people is ignoring a not minuscule portion of the online population. I don’t know if it’s the right decision to gate off a section of users from talking to each other when they really shouldn’t have a problem getting along.

[Aragoth]

@Pakawaka

Why isnt this still on PMU?
Like what are you doing? Spamming /explode every 5 mins? really?

When I did my thread, everyone else who opposed me, basically almost harassed me SIMPLY because I didn’t want to clarify on certain things that I believe were already clarified. They literally gave a visual representation on why an /ignore command is needed. We were talking about what was relevant and what wasn’t that whole time, yet nobody took the time to see that the relevancy was right in their faces. Except for those few supportive ones of course. Anyways there are a few individuals who have brought it to my attention in-game in a negative mannerism, and basically implied that what I was trying to do to get the /ignore command implemented, would not work. But you know what really would not have worked? Having a whole argument about nothing with people, and then having new viewers to the thread, look at the thread and basically be afraid to state their opinion because of the environment. I prevented that by commenting irrelevant to most comments that I felt like the explanations to were clear. The very first comment on that thread, was a mis-perception and they could have viewed it in a different manner. One could argue that I could have expressed myself better, but geez this community doesn’t not cut you a break. If I tackled the concept in as many angles as I possibly can, why would you do everything in your power to find its flaw? Rather than fill in the missing pieces on your own, and support me with either positive support, or just give me constructive criticism, like Sharky did, which I appreciate. Showing me why you disagreed in a respectful manner like Nuxl did, would have also worked for me. This community’s air is too tight, and it literally feels like we have the community of a youtube comment section, when you have people like the ones in my thread. I humbled other people by giving them simple and easy answers. They wanted me to waste my time giving a thorough explanation just so they can go ahead and oppose me yet again, like if they are some type of god who is always right. Basically I made it so that others could recognize that these oppositive individual’s concerns, have an easy explanation. But its just weird that they seemed to just want to shoot me down at all costs. You would think creating an /ignore command would be PMU’s apocalypse the way these people wanted to shoot me down. And also people really think I lost sleep at night over this, when in reality it was never a big deal to me. Its just an idea I want to bring to fruition, if it ends up not happening, at least I tried right? And yes I tried. Just because I did not give an explanation to your CLOSED IN OUTLOOKS, does not mean I did not put in an effort to make this come to fruition.

But on another note, THANK YOU FOR MAKING THIS THREAD, you kept my efforts alive. And at least I know someone supports me all the way through. Lets make this happen!

[Festivo]

please don’t turn this thread into an aggressive discussion like the last one. ( not directed at anyone, just generally. ) contributing constructively to the discussion is appreciated more as compared to flaming it.

thx fam (:

i personally don’t think you’re “ignoring” someone if you have to type out a command to do it. if anything it feels like you’re acknowledging them further. this is not to suggest that it won’t be helpful in some very particular scenarios

also /flag <client> command makes more sense i mean c"mon this isn"t facebook

[Aragoth]

@Festivo

please don’t turn this thread into an aggressive discussion like the last one. ( not directed at anyone, just generally. ) contributing constructively to the discussion is appreciated more as compared to flaming it.

thx fam (:

i personally don’t think you’re “ignoring” someone if you have to type out a command to do it. if anything it feels like you’re acknowledging them further. this is not to suggest that it won’t be helpful in some very particular scenarios

also /flag <client> command makes more sense i mean c"mon this isn"t facebook

I don’t understand something here. Just because you are choosing to ignore someone through a technological/systematical method, does not mean you are acknowledging them. Some people do not have the diligence to realize that arguing will only fuel the fire. Some people just do not know how to ignore people on their own. PMU is vulnerable to this, because of many players wanting to be the most credible or respected. People always have their egos at stake. I feel as an admin you should know what the community is like, and I feel like you kind of don’t. It is kind of understandable though, with your presence mostly always being at an absence in the community due to many different things.

[ArtMax]

@Agunimon

Pro /ignore command.
- Less strain on Moderators.

[quote=ArtMax]damage is already done.

@ArtMax

Problem is, you’re not doing anything to stop them by blocking the person’s messages.

• Immediate action.
• Defense measure against global arguments / flame wars.
  [s]- Players can exit conversations of their choice.
• Helps players (actually) ignore people.[/s]

@ArtMax

If they feel like proving themselves, why would they stop at it and just turn off messages? I don’t believe they would.

• Filters the chat.

Anti /ignore command.
- Limited communications. (Take into account PMU’s size.)
To expand, some examples:

@ArtMax

[ul]
[li]Loss of context in day-to-day conversations.[/li]
[li]Loss of context in genuinely useful debates in the public.[/li]
[li]Loss of potential help that a player might get from the recipient.[/li][list:rzblxdel][li]Conversely, the player in need spamming the same thing over and over due to either the public not knowing they didn’t see the response.[/ul][/li]
[li]If the target is a misunderstood newbie, they might get blocked forever by a majority and be driven away since no one helps them.[/li]
[li]Loss of potential training allies.[/li]
[li]Loss of sales and/or purchase, depending on the side.[/list:u:rzblxdel][/li]

@ArtMax

Thing is, even if you block just one person, it may be a huge marginal drop since there are rarely ever more than 5 people active with something to say, much less helping or cooperating. And in most timezones it defaults to a handful few that may or may not pay attention to PMU since it’s, well, dead in that timezone.

- /ignore (s) are forever. (Can be reinstated if timed.)
Most likely would be toggleable, but also see:

@ArtMax

Unfortunately, that goes on a premise that the person blocking the other is being rational enough about the whole plan. If you are so annoyed by it that you need to completely wipe out the offender’s (at the time you may exaggerate their role quite a fair bit if you don’t like just something), you may or may not have already crossed into the irrational judgement.

• No forgiveness.
• “Shadowbanning” can occur.
• Personal grievances enhanced. (A group of people or a person intentionally ignoring a person.)
• Unintended usages.[/quote]

@Aragoth

Having a whole argument about nothing with people, and then having new viewers to the thread, look at the thread and basically be afraid to state their opinion because of the environment.

Had it not gone between “irrelevant” and arguments on why “irrelevant” is not an argument, the thread would be 2 pages long tops instead of 7 + ~2 pages of whatever they removed because of your spam and it would not have been a problem.

@Aragoth

I prevented that

Really.

@Aragoth

If I tackled the concept in as many angles as I possibly can, why would you do everything in your power to find its flaw? Rather than fill in the missing pieces on your own, and support me with either positive support, or just give me constructive criticism, like Sharky did, which I appreciate.

Weighting out pros and cons of an action is the basic of a good judgement. There’s a lot of “me” flying out there when it really just boils down to “is the concept good or bad?”. Flame war aside, the opposition gave constructive criticism, ie what may not or will not work about the concept.

@Aragoth

I humbled other people by giving them simple and easy answers.

You didn’t give anyone any answers. The only person actually trying to make reason about /ignore being a good thing was CheckeredZebra.

@Aragoth

like if they are some type of god who is always right.

So you just ignored them by saying that they’re wrong without giving any explanation whatsoever because you were apparently always right.

@Aragoth

But its just weird that they seemed to just want to shoot me down at all costs.

“me” again, so much egoism going on here. We raised flaws. You shot down them all without any reasoning.

@Aragoth

And also people really think I lost sleep at night over this, when in reality it was never a big deal to me.

No one ever said anything even remotely similar to anyone except for you:

@Aragoth

(P.S. Im pretty sure nobody will read that, so I think you wasted like 5 hours of time)

@Aragoth

Just because I did not give an explanation to your CLOSED IN OUTLOOKS,

For the sake of the argument let’s consider them being really just “closed in outlooks” and not “opposing opinions” and “negative facts”. So what? That doesn’t help to solve the problems in any way conceivable.

@Aragoth

does not mean I did not put in an effort to make this come to fruition.

Let us go back for a moment to remember that this is what your own contribution boiled down to. You really should be thanking CheckeredZebra for trying to actually save the thread from you.

[Aragoth]

Im clearly not ignoring it if I’m responding to it. Even if its just one word. I also never said it was wrong, I just said it was a mis-perception and could be viewed in different angles, you just chose to look at a very weak angle, and stated an invalid point of the situation. But what you said was “Why would someone want to use the /ignore command if they want to express themselves?” and a basic answer to that, (that isn’t irrelevant) would be; " Some people do not have the diligence to realize that arguing will only fuel the fire. Some people just do not know how to ignore people on their own." And yes I prevented that, because had I actually scooped down to your low level of perception, the PMU community would have conformed to it as well by just looking at you and me debate. They would have looked at this matter with a weak perception, just like you. And yes of course checkeredzebra is appreciated, but no he does not deserve all the credit, because he was simply stating the details on his own accord. I did that when I made the thread, what else do you think a THREAD is a for? What is the real need to explain myself more than once? ESPECIALLY if there are multiple people who are already explaining why in the thread. Yet you claim this won’t come to fruition without a solid explanation, even though I already gave one. And you claim the opposition gave constructive criticism? So calling me a brain dead child, and a clown, is constructive criticism? Huh… But Like I said in my last thread.
“Just look at what artmax is doing. He is quoting 15 different comments, and countering them, like its just that easy. DO YOU REALLY THINK YOU CAN ARGUE WITH SOMEONE LIKE THAT?”

Also, when you quoted this and replied this
"And also people really think I lost sleep at night over this, when in reality it was never a big deal to me.

No one ever said anything even remotely similar to anyone except for you"

You are assuming that you KNOW who has interacted with me in-game and who hasn’t. That’s a pretty big assumption. Seems to me as if you have eyes everywhere huh. YOU THE ILLUMINATI?

[ArtMax]

@Aragoth

Im clearly not ignoring it if I’m responding to it. Even if its just one word.

To be considered a response it has to be meaningful.

@Aragoth

you just chose to look at a very weak angle, and stated an invalid point of the situation. But what you said was “Why would someone want to use the /ignore command if they want to express themselves?” and a basic answer to that, (that isn’t irrelevant) would be; " Some people do not have the diligence to realize that arguing will only fuel the fire. Some people just do not know how to ignore people on their own."

How is that weak? If they do not have the “diligence to realize” or “do not know how to ignore people on their own”, why would they come to the conclusion that they can /ignore the supposed offender? They won’t, simple as that.

@Aragoth

And yes I prevented that, because had I actually scooped down to your low level of perception, the PMU community would have conformed to it as well by just looking at you and me debate. They would have looked at this matter with a weak perception, just like you.

Really? That’s your reasoning? The issues are very real and they add up easily. You can’t just call it “weak” and call it a job well done, and you very well didn’t prevent it but only fueled it because of all those “irrelevant” and other meaningless messages mocking everything else that didn’t match your own point of view, as well as devoting a whole message to “yes” when someone makes a point convenient to you.

@Aragoth

Like I said in my last thread.
“Just look at what artmax is doing. He is quoting 15 different comments, and countering them, like its just that easy. DO YOU REALLY THINK YOU CAN ARGUE WITH SOMEONE LIKE THAT?”
Sooooo Irrelevant.

That still doesn’t make any sense at all, this thread or not, since going point by point and not doing “irrelevant” is exactly how you’re supposed to approach a problem.

Edit in response to an edit:

@Aragoth

And yes of course checkeredzebra is appreciated, but no he does not deserve all the credit, because he was simply stating the details on his own accord.

No one else tried to make any constructive debate other than them. Naturally, they do deserve all the credit.

@Aragoth

I did that when I made the thread,

A whole original post that I shot down with just one sentence and you still can’t make a valid counterargument to that.

@Aragoth

what else do you think a THREAD is a for?

I dunno, debate? Constructive criticism? Arguments? Certainly not “irrelevant” and “neener-neener I’m not listening”.

@Aragoth

What is the real need to explain myself more than once? ESPECIALLY if there are multiple people who are already explaining why in the thread. Yet you claim this won’t come to fruition without a solid explanation, even though I already gave one.

Show a single example.

@Aragoth

And you claim the opposition gave constructive criticism? So calling me a brain dead child, and a clown, is constructive criticism? Huh… But Like I said in my last thread.

Either you’re picking things out of context subconsciously and you only see what’s convenient to you or you’re shameless. Let’s go back to what I said literally one message ago.

@ArtMax

Flame war aside, the opposition gave constructive criticism, ie what may not or will not work about the concept.

I directly acknowledged that it happened. Yet you ignored that. How biased can you get?

[Aragoth]

Nope, a response is showing any type of attention to another situation or verbal body, last I checked. Which I did. Also, if a person who finds themselves in a bind of an ego war with another player, most people would find a easy way out by using the /ignore command. If I hadn’t humbled you the way i did with my “irrelevant” answers, the few players that actually agreed and gave positive feedback, would have probably not cared to support. Its funny because there were like 2x more people who agreed than those who didn’t. You wouldn’t know that by looking at the thread, unless you read it thoroughly. That is all you and Rubick’s fault. But when you post your concerns on things, its usually about something YOU can find the answer to by yourself. Something that doesn’t even need another person’s reflection. That is low perception.

[Scizivire]

I’m going to lock this topic because it seems like it will get out of hand like the one before this. The replies are not longer relevant to the suggestion.