Mt. Moon nerf proposal

Suggestions and Contributions
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Before I begin, i just want to note that i do not actually support a mt moon nerf (im not against it either).
I think the economy not only has no inflation-- it has active deflation, which mean money influx is not an issue.

However, IF we were planning a mt moon nerf. i would like to suggest a route not yet discussed: disabling/closing the rest stops.

This has the added bonus that is an easy solution to apply to cryptic chasm, the other dungeon people will likely flock to should mt moon suffer a big enough nerf.

if the nerf is small, it’s business as usual. if the nerf is too strong, everyone goes to cryptic chasm. then you have to nerf that too.

if the rest stops are disabled, it would be easy to implement, and furthermore. it would be easy to reverse.

there is a current discussion on discord right now and there are those that really dislike the idea I’ve just proposed. that makes me confident that this is a good fix for the effort required.

it makes no sense to only balance my moon and leave other dungeons to become the meta for money making.

if we want to make people work harder for their money, lets do that, instead of making our devs work harder to create balance :3

please note i do not think this is the best fix. i think it’s the EASIEST fix

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there is a current discussion on discord right now and there are those that really dislike the idea I’ve just proposed. that makes me confident that this is a good fix for the effort required.

Oh ok. Huh, I guess since there’s a lot of those that dislike the idea of drinking gasoline for speed, but after reading this, I now feel confident that drinking gasoline is good fix for speed. Better yet, A lot of people dislike the idea of gambling away your life-savings but now I feel empowered to do so because a lot of people not liking the idea must mean I am RIGHT AND EVERYONE ELSE IS WRONG! Thanks for your help :^)

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I think the economy not only has no inflation-- it has active deflation, which mean money influx is not an issue.

Can I ask why you feel that way? Just wondering

When the total money in an economy (the money supply) increases too rapidly, the quality of the money (the currency value) often decreases.
Inflation - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Deflation means that generally the prices of products are going down.
Deflation - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think both deflation and Inflation are happening. People stockpile money, while having nothing to spend It on besides guaranteeing a Sparkle Token or something next auction, If that. At first shiny bounties helped with this a little, but not when people are bountying shinies that literally spawn In the dungeon people use to farm money

Anyway generally I don’t think disabling rest stops Is a good Idea. I was actually working on a thread ( that I probably won’t post because It’s not like anything even matters ) talking about why actually playing the game can feel exhausting. One of my points was lack of consistent fast travel In a supposed strand open-world type game. You can only ever have one rest stop so you’re going to feel Inclined to only run that dungeon to make the most of the fact you put It there

I don’t think being able to easily repeat a dungeon Is a bad thing. It’s how fast the runs are going. This Is of course fault of the 4x speed Mobile Scarfing strat, not the dungeon

I’m still In belief that simply disabling running when at 0 belly Is the only thing that’s needed to “nerf” mobile scarfing—I really don’t get convoluted solutions like “w-when In a wall make the game totally unplayable!!!” that will probably never happen. All It would do Is make Ghosts’ utility even worse. Wanna pick Rowlet? L + ratio + you fell off

The only argument against It I’ve seen Is possibly desyncing the player when triggered. But we don’t know If that will really be the case ( If It works similar to paralysis, possibly? ). And people are allergic to saying if they think an Idea Is actually good or bad and giving thought out reasons as to why Instead of just leaving your message as the last post on the topic or straight up Ignoring what you said

It’s a good thing disabling running at zero belly may be even easier and makes a lot of sense
Either way, sometimes, effort needs to put In to have something happen. Yeah crazy I know. That’s wild
“Gotta try hard sometimes!” - March 7th

4x speed with a Tight Belt Is still completely viable for shiny hunting and stuff. I’ve done It In Thunderstorm Forest ( preparing for the day they finally do something about Mobile Scarfing pepega ). Also not to mention that Mobile Scarves are found In the end box of the dungeon they are used to spam… Why not make obtaining the Items that are broken take actual effort. No like really. We’re no strangers to random changes without any notice beforehand or a changelog so why Is doing something like this any different? Don’t put valuable Items ( GM, Tight Belt ) In easily spammable dungeons… day 5048048304 of asking for more challenge dungeons like TC to make things actually worth something

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yes, you may ask that.

i say deflation because the general cost of goods is going down. im sure you agree with that.

i wouldn’t say it’s inflation because while we are getting more money supply, its value is not decreasing (relative to any goods and services. the other high ticket item aside from sparkle tokens are bounties. and as far as it looks to me; those aren’t going up either.

thus money is not decreasing in value relative to other goods. tms are the same price too. event items are going down in value too.

as for your other suggestions, i dont disagree. i merely suggest this as an easy fix lest we get a more undesirable outcome

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who are you again?

and you’re welcome

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also. bounties do not help out at all. because bounties just transfer who owns said money. it does not lower the actual supply of money.

the net amount of money in the economy is the same

edit
deleca, i just want to point out. that inflation and deflation are complicated issues irl. and its why the post you quoted wrote
“value often decreases” in other words. not always. right now in pmu there is no inflation and the money is not getting devalued.

and i suspect the reason for that is mainly because the supply of non-money goods aka evo items shinies etc outpaces the influx of money.

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im not suggesting we remove rest stops for all dungeons or anywhere in the game. just cryptic chasm and mt moon.

im sure you feel like you’re left behind by all the x4 user spamming the dungeon 80 times in a day getting 200k per hour.

i dont want to suggest something that will make them quit the game. just make their money influx slightly slower

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Yeah, fair point. But that’s also why money grinding shouldn’t be so reliable In dungeons…probably. I don’t know I’m not giga brain. Though It does have to come from somewhere. Won’t matter If you get a Item who’s value lies In the player market If no one has the Poke to buy It. I’m not an economist

If prices for Items are decreasing doesn’t that make It less valuable objectively? I actually don’t know which Is why I’m asking. How Is Poke valued exactly. I figure If people are getting millions of It so easily then It starts to lose some value. Even If someone spends a lot In an auction It can easily be farmed back If they wanted to

Even so I don’t think making the game more tedious to play Is gonna help that much. It just makes getting to the dungeon somewhat slower. It doesn’t feel like an efficient nerf but It also just annoying being robbed of your rest stop. I remember a controversy about “bandaid solutions” a few years back

Yes, I feel behind some but I half don’t care cause It’s a game and nothing In life mat—

So anyway If people quit because of a needed balance change then…oh well honestly. Something needs to be done. I think any nerf that actually helps will be received negatively. It’s Inevitable. I’m still salty about the gem and crystal change. I didn’t like It when It happened because I’m the only person In the game who encourages PMU to actually follow PMD sometimes so as to not create artificial Issues. Here we are now, gems and crystals are deemed too strong and whatever. So cool

4x speed with a Tight Belt or heck even a Stamina Band Is viable like I said, It’s not hard to get used to. A mobile scarf nerf would just mean less efficiency getting money through wall Items, and thus players maybe making an effort In selling things to others through Items like the harder to get fossils. Even so, there does need to be something to “delete” money rather than passing It from players like you said. I guess maybe with that having so much money wouldn’t necessarily be a bad thing? I don’t know. Slates are underwhelming, auctions are ok…but still It also depends on If the player chooses to spend their money on said things or not. I guess If they don’t ever plan on spending It, It doesn’t matter ???

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by the way. i don’t actually disagree you for most things.

i too want the game funner. and sometimes ppl are just gonna quit if you fix the game and it needs to be fixed.

im glad you put ur opinion for staff to see ^_^

as a side note. i pm’d you on discord because i dont want my dungeon discussion changes thread to become an economics101 thread

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i would like to make mention:

shouldn’t the best way to make poke be the player market?
pmu is a mmo, and as mmo player interaction should be the first aspect first and foremost and currently the player market is a bit of joke?
nobody in it sells for high because it’s kinda pointless? it’s not the place where you make money, is the place where you give people other stuff, so whenever someone puts up a sell request thier main goal isn’t to make money, it’s to reachout to other people to let em have a item, which mainly involves low level players since a high level player can just go get it himself, which leads to low prices, i mean like who are you going to sell stuff like tight belt or golden masks to? the people with millions in thier bank already have prob 3 copys of them and 1000 ropes and revs.
so if you wanna make money the best method is running a dungeon over and over again to sell sell items to the kecleons npcs, i feel like thats wrong, the npcs should be how you make money it should be by interacting with other players,
currently money has no flow, it’s just a faucet dropping water on a giant tank for no real reason? just to flex with your friends who has the highest amounts of water and i guess to let the trucker called auction that happens very incosistently to haul it off to be disintegrated in exchenge for joke items to flex more to your friends

personally i would go scorched heart and just COMPETLY remove sell items from the game, but i get that’s not what players would enjoy, so just decreasing the ammount of poke that can be gained is the best method.

wouldn’t just lowering numbers be easier instead of making the game more tedius to play?
i’m pretty sure it would be simpler to lower a spawn chance from 10% to 5% from a item to make it rarer then making the player walk for a additional 5 minutes to reach the dungeon…
i fail to see the logic

uhmm i hope you are aware that makes it sounds like your very full of yourself and narcissistic
and will cause people to approach your idea very negatively :eeveesad:

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I don’t think anyone can disagree that in its current state, the PMU economy is in a very undesirable state, and the money-generating potential of Mt. Moon is a large factor in how the economy came to be this way. But closing the rest stop? Sure, this would indeed be a small nerf to Mt. Moon, but this change would also discourage players from repeatedly running the dungeon at all, given they’d have to climb the mountain every time they wanted to enter the dungeon. It’d be quite an annoyance.

There are plenty of solutions for this that I think would have the same impact while not causing player frustration. I’m all for Deleca’s mobile scarf nerf proposal, as that item has been far too powerful for far too long. Though even if that were to make it into the game, it’d be a nerf to nearly every dungeon in the game, and therefore Mt. Moon would still be a ridiculous money generator compared to others.

The solution I’d propose would be to simply lower the sell value of the dungeon’s valuables to a point in which Mt. Moon wouldn’t be the most ideal dungeon to run for raw cash. There are still plenty of reasons to run the dungeon - it provides some incredibly valuable items, such as doom seeds, mobile scarves, and is the only location to obtain the tight belt. My point is, Mt. Moon doesn’t NEED to be a money generator. Even if every single sellable was removed, I believe it’d still be a popular dungeon to run for these reasons.

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Summary in case you hate reading = it’s up to staff to fix / change / add to the game and always has been can only ever hope they choose to do so :>

Dang this topic got kinda heated but as with any balance or changes in pmu it always comes down to them either not being able to make changes due to lack of staff or because the old staff won’t give others permission to continue work on the game whether that be for security or whatever reasons they have for it. I don’t mean that in any bad way towards staff even the slightest bit but PMU’s development basically came to a close ages ago when the old old staff left and since then has just been “kept up/moderated” by new staff not to say any content hasn’t been made but ye. Just to repeat nothing against staff at all im sure they have reasons for what they do but it is what it is the games code is older then half of its players at this point and unless some effort is put in to change it likely won’t grow beyond some quick events or recycling content :(

Extra long reading because im happy forums are alive =
Always dreamed pmu would again get an active team of staff working on it not just moderating which is definitely important too cause god knows pmu gets some “amazing” people sometimes :slight_smile: but more designers / programmers because we can have all the idea’s and all the changes thought up in the world but it’s useless if nobody will or even CAN work on it so yeeeee. Sorry for long post but i have been basically begging for pmu to be worked on for like a decade now (literally) so ye :>. Just for repetition sake (3rd time) nothing against staff but the game died in terms of being worked on when old staff left and new staff either didn’t want to design/ program, don’t have the skills required, or straight up just don’t get given permission to do so by old staff just wanting to upkeep pmu as it is since it’s “working fine as is” and adding new content inevitably will add errors at some point.

#add a new hard region to pmu so i can live in it plsssssssss :pray:

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a bit late to the discusion but I don’t really think removing the mobile scarf or rest stop is a great idea, as said above removing the rest stop just annoys players it doesn’t actually help much, and the mobile scarf really isnt in a super powerful position, with one you tend to be more fragile as you’re often on low health and require a move slot for healing, yes it’s a great item but not above trap scarf or tight belt, though perhaps it should be rarer.

I don’t really have a problem with mount moon making less money, but I think it would be a better idea to bring other similarly difficult and late game dungeons up to its level or you’d end up with people who kept all the money made from it and likely just end up with a new best dungeon, it would require a fair bit of tinkering around though.

I think the main issue with the economy is there aren’t really many high value items you’d want or need to buy, so most of the economy is powered by shiny hunting, outside of that high value sales are extremely rare