*SPOILERS* HC suggestions

Currently there are a few aspects of the current HC that I feel could be touched up very easily, so here they are in a format that won’t be drowned out on Discord!

Hail is able to spawn on the Christmas side starting on floor 1. This is essentially a death sentence, as you won’t be able to recover up to your rapidly increasing maximum HP and will likely end up having to spend the entire first floor at critical health. I’d remove it from floors 1-21 at the very least.
Fixed! Thank you, Pencil!

The big “holes” on the Halloween side are not marked as hallway tiles, and so enemies can spawn in them and players can be warp trapped into them. I’m no expert with the map editor, but I’m pretty sure they can be edited to not be valid tiles for warping.

There are no real tools in the dungeon currently to deal with a monster house. If your chosen runner doesn’t have an AoE move, a monster house can very easily stunlock you to death without any real counterplay, and even if you do manage to escape you’re robbed of a floor to train up on and collect items. My suggestion is to preferably remove them entirely, but if that is undesirable than another option is to include slumber orbs in the item pool to at least give stuff with an AoE move a fair chance.
Fixed! Thanks Kirk!

After a few more runs on the earlier floors (Minccino pls be pink) I’ve been reminded why I’m not a huge fan of slow traps. They don’t actually threaten the player, they’re just really, really annoying. Could they perhaps be changed to a different type of trap?

The overall trap density may also be a bit too high, there have been several occasions I’ve been hit by a ton of them back-to-back, even on modestly-sized floors.

Apparently, the door leading to HC’s “secret exit” is on the default timer rather than staying open once it is unlocked. Could this perhaps be fixed?
EDIT: It’s been brought to my attention the primary doors that don’t re-lock are those in Stormhold and Sky Fortress, which may be running custom scripts. So this might not be possible at the current time.

You can have something with a weather Ability (Psyduck Is as early as Seafoam Cove).

The big “holes” on the Halloween side are not marked as hallway tiles, and so enemies can spawn in the and players can be warp trapped into them.

That’s the point.
There’s Warp Scarves, Warp Seeds, and you can easily bring or recruit a Ghost-type In the dungeon to warp out/leave.

I personally agree on the early weather aspect. I’ve never been unlucky enough to get hail on my early floors but it is a very easy killer. While Psyduck is available early, seafoam cove is a dungeon that I don’t think many new players are aware of - they generally stop searching the beach after finding seaside.

I’ve already talked at length as to why I think “bring total counter to mechanic or die” is not such a great design philosophy. I can get around it, yes, but that doesn’t mean it’s ideal game design.

See above. I’m well aware of how to counter it completely, but the fact it needs a counter or it risks completely softlocking the player is rather dicey to begin with.

I wouldn’t be opposed to hail not appearing on the early floors but I was just saying xd

While Psyduck is available early, seafoam cove is a dungeon that I don’t think many new players are aware of - they generally stop searching the beach after finding seaside.

That’s why you use the wiki ;);););)

That’s fair but people adapt anyway like how everyone brings Refresh, sure It Isn’t required but you most likely will die without It. Maybe It Isn’t Ideal, but building your team around running a dungeon efficiently Is part of the game, don’t @ me.

Yeah but It’s Intended so I don’t see It being changed ( I know that doesn’t mean It can’t be changed ). After 10 or so floors the warp thing stops happening too. This same thing can happen In TC Ghost.

I might be being too negative but for once I think things should just be left how they are. I guess I don’t care If It Is changed, but I don’t think It really matters so much to be changed.

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That’s actually a pretty big reason why my thread on status conditions exists. I’d argue it is required, but that’s another topic for another thread.

That’s true. If you take a dragon type into the ice side of this dungeon, you’re going to have a hard time. But requiring you have one of 4-5 pokemon with the ability Cloud Nine on every team is a bit overkill.

Then I think we have our answer. If this only happens on one tileset, it’s likely a bug.

I’m not sure I understand this stance? What do you see as the downside to changes being implemented?

I’ve gone and removed hail from the first 21 floors in the Winter part of Holiday Cave, thanks for the feedback.

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Well tru I agreed with that but any “argument” I can think of boils down to my original stance. “bring total counter to mechanic or die” Is something prevalent In many games, I don’t have an Issue with It so I genuinely can’t think of a way to respond back. Status conditions are more of a general Issue than hail In a level 1 dungeon that’s not even permanent I guess ( + rng Is rng which HC usually consists quite a lot of anyway ). I think I’m being hypocritical so Idk < : )

Then I think we have our answer. If this only happens on one tileset, it’s likely a bug.

Pls
image
It’s supposed to happen. ( And If you’re skeptical here’s the link to the message for the context. )

I’m not sure I understand this stance? What do you see as the downside to changes being implemented?

Generally, nothing, but for this specifically, I just don’t think It’s that Important to warrant changes especially when one of the things Is deliberate.

also I guess the hail thing Isn’t relevant anymore since Pencil changed It lol

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Well, sure. It’s something that’s in plenty of games. No game is perfect. But can you think of any games where it genuinely improved the experience you had?

No, I don’t think so. I don’t agree with the case you are making, but it isn’t due to any sort of hypocrisy on your end; I just think the foundation of the argument you brought forward doesn’t quite hold up when scrutinized. Heck, it’s something we all do at times, myself definitely included. (See: some of my points in the sparkle token thread)

As I see it, that’s the entire point of these sorts of discussions–to throw out our ideas and see what ultimately holds up under scrutiny. (Remaining respectful and constructive is also a vital part of this formula, of course–which is often neglected to disastrous results)

Hm. Well, I’ve also seen talk from staff that it’s on the chopping block, so I think we’ll need to wait and see then.

That begs the question of when is it “important enough?”

I find these particular two issues to make the dungeon a lot less accessible to a good chunk of the playerbase who is less prone to min-maxing than I, and given the limited-time nature of this event I would imagine that to be a problem. With things like the supplies being adjusted and now the recent hail change implemented, I think the dungeon is in a far better state than it was at launch.

Added a bit on monster houses to the OP. If anyone else has any suggestions, poke me and we can see about potentially adding them to the OP as well!

Bold of you to assume I can think and I have little motivation to play things that aren’t PMU basically no but that’s because It might not be about Improving the experience per se
I literally just don’t think It’s bad to more or less require a certain strat. Maybe In PMU, especially for an event that’s sorta centered around making sure all players can do It?

No, I don’t think so. I don’t agree with the case you are making, but it isn’t due to any sort of hypocrisy on your end; I just think the foundation of the argument you brought forward doesn’t quite hold up when scrutinized. Heck, it’s something we all do at times, myself definitely included. (See: some of my points in the sparkle token thread)

ok

That begs the question of when is it “important enough?”

Idk lol

And I don’t really want to debate on this and not just because trying to provide stable arguments to anything/explaining why I feel the way I do about x thing takes too much effort
I’m not specifically trying to prevent the changes from happening even, I think HC Is fine how It Is regarding what you brought up and that’s all I wanted to express without having to take everything too seriously and have an In depth discussion about It. I get that’s part of getting each others points across but I made my attempt to explain my reasons and don’t see the point of trying to argue further as everyone has their own opinions. Trying to converse with me more at this point won’t really end up going anywhere.

Admittedly, you’ve put me in a bit of an awkward position here; you’ve voiced disagreement with the points I’m trying to make and come up with some of your own, and then essentially shut down the conversation by asking I don’t contest it with my own points in return.

That said, I totally understand not being one for this sort of back and forth–it’s mentally draining at times. So I’ll save the nitpicking for someone more interested in mechanics discussion.

Monster houses should no longer spawn in this HC.

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Apparently, the door leading to HC’s “secret exit” is on the default timer rather than staying open once it is unlocked. Could this perhaps be fixed? While several other dungeons do share this quirk, I’m not sure I understand the mechanical purpose behind this and would like to see it fixed in all the places where it occurs–but other dungeon’s problems are for their own threads.
EDIT: It’s been brought to my attention the primary doors that don’t re-lock are those in Stormhold and Sky Fortress, which may be running custom scripts. So this might not be possible at the current time.