Surprise, that was directed at you.
But now I believe it should be plainly obvious to everyone that you can’t refute my claims. Hint: that doesn’t support your case.
Surprise, that was directed at you.
But now I believe it should be plainly obvious to everyone that you can’t refute my claims. Hint: that doesn’t support your case.[/quote]
Pour it all out Artmax. pats your back
Artmax:
I agree with the original statement that people who are “out to prove themselves” won’t use the /ignore command and are more likely to just argue until their faces are blue. That isn’t the basis of my stance; I don’t really find public arguments that much of a problem and debates are my forte.
Back on point:
Loss of context in day-to-day conversations.
Loss of context in genuinely useful debates in the public.
Loss of potential help that a player might get from the recipient.
Conversely, the player in need spamming the same thing over and over due to either the public not knowing they didn’t see the response.
If the target is a misunderstood newbie, they might get blocked forever by a majority and be driven away since no one helps them.
Loss of potential training allies.
Loss of sales and/or purchase, depending on the side.
Despite concerns, most people don’t use the /ignore command that much to cause those problems on a consistent/worrisome/severe basis, I promise. Even if there is an isolated incident, said situation is easily fixed with the ability to unignore on a pinch. (Obviously /ignore shouldn’t be irreversible, that’d be terrible.) Even so, any misunderstandings can be amended except for the most hostile/irrational/bloodthirsty of people. As long as /ignore isn’t super over-hyped by staff as a cure all and is instead just presented as a good option for rare cases (or as a temporary way to calm down over a situation instead of help degrade it), the list you presented isn’t going to stack up.
would still get the harm done to non-blocking innocent (haha) children.
I’m not really worried about filters for swearing or people/children seeing swearing, sorry if that was unclear somehow. As I said later in my post, I’m not primarily concerned with arguments either (See the “Ignore arguments for a minute, guys” sentence). Don’t confuse my points with the points in the first post: I’m more concerned about people getting annoyed by somebody that has not stopped when asked politely.
However, as a concept I find “it’s already happened” a bad point regardless. To bring it to the extreme for clarity/comedy: armed bank robberies by guys in clown masks have already happened, but that doesn’t mean we should go “oh well, the damage is already done” and not do anything about armed bank robberies that could happen in the future. (As for the “police” [staff], I covered how better measures can help them as well in the portion you quoted.)
As for your second point:
You don’t really have to do that, you know, so instead of [logging out], just don’t watch it.
“Wanna see my ekans” is only slightly amusing the first time. People asking for your facebook/email every day despite you saying “stop” is not amusing at all. It doesn’t matter how you respond or if you respond, sometimes. Some people never stop, and that’s when you need /ignore. Let’s say he asks once a day or asks for weird things in a way that isn’t clear without context. You’d probably have to get multiple screenshots of that guy being creepy or sneakily alluding to self pleasure before enough evidence stacks up for staff to feel ok with muting him/whatever. A single picture of a person doing a single bad thing/a bad thing easily covered up with an excuse probably isn’t going to lead to a ban, meaning you have to actively try to “not look at it”/put up with it for a while before action could happen. Maybe even indefinitely, until that person gets tired of you or finally gives up. Keep in mind this isn’t uncommon on teh interwebs and that this could happen again in another 2-6 months on top of one case lasting a long time.
OR…you could /ignore him + anyone else who does something similar and the problem is solved immediately.
Guess which option is less unpleasant?
(Edit: This is admittedly less likely to happen on PMU, but if PMU plans on growing and aims to get a bigger playerbase…eventually yes, this will be a thing that happens. Alas.)
This is gonna be a long post.
Reading this entire thread is giving me some sort of uncurable aneurism, as well as hemmeroids.
First off, someone brought up the larger MMO issue, which exactly why a /ignore command is non beneficial to PMU in its current state (It’s a bleedin dead horse). You’re essentially implementing a command onto a game that, with its already small playerbase, creates even more ways to drive new players away. Sure it can definitely silence some arguments, but the main reason a /ignore command exists on most MMOs are currency sellers.
Second off, stop replying irrelevant to every comment Artmax makes without explaining WHY it’s irrelevant. From what I see, the one with the least relevant comments is you. Art is trying to show you the various issues, and while some of it can be wrong, you seem to believe insulting and belittling him (the guy who is probably gonna be the one scripting it if this even becomes a thing) would convince him that you’re right.
Alright, lets get to the actual /ignore command, and how it would impact the game, positively and negatively. It definitely has its pros, especially with PMU’s trademark PMDrama. Not everyone wants to hear people’s self righteous pontifications, and the fact that PMU’s chat system is LESS than stellar really doesn’t help with that. However, there are lots of cons to this command as well, most glaringly something I mentioned above. PMU’s pathetically small playerbase is already small. The game cannot afford to drive people away, or have bad publicity, and to be honest, ignoring people isn’t gonna really solve anything. They’re gonna continue, and the drama will spread. Here is where PMU’s small population causes this command to be a bad idea. Eventually everyone will ignore this one player, and as a result, that player will most likely quit, causing this game’s population to grow even smaller. New players might get ignored simply because they’re asking for help, ETC.
Solutions to this problem are quite simple TBH. Instead of /ignore, a command like /report that works like a vote system could work, with the punishment being a 5 minute mute, scaling up with infractions (Which is how larger MMO’s take care of things.) However such a system can, and most likely will backfire, as players can then just get a bunch of their friends to dogpile reports on people they don’t like.
Another solution would be to impose a character limit, and global chat timer, limiting the amount that people can talk in global. People arguing in town would fall to the staff (Who from what I can tell from this thread, still don’t do their bleedin jobs as often as needed) who need to be less nice, and immediately mute after 3 warnings.
Or just make the chat window minimizable or something.
So to summarize:
Pros:
-Drama will not affect a player individually.
-You can ignore people who hurt your poor little feelings.
-Less need for staff to be on all the time.
-You don’t have to put up with people wanting to show you their ekans.
Cons:
-Drama can potentially escalate, and get more people involved.
-New players can be driven away.
-Communication(which is extremely important with the size of PMU) gets limited
-Does not address the real issue, a really bad chat system.
-The creation of what I call “The middlemen” in PMU.
As you can see here, there are more cons than pros, although you can most definitely call the con’s “irrelevant” and “biased”. However, lacking actual arguments as to why will not convince anyone of your points, and just shows a hypocritical side to you by calling other people’s arguments irrelevant (Thus doing exactly what you people want the ignore function for: Self-righteous pontification with no room for disagreement).
Unfortunately, this most likely will not happen. While I have many reasons to say why it will not, I’ve stated them too many times, and as such, will not repeat myself. Yes, if the game grows larger, then yes, the /ignore command becomes an important facet. But with PMU’s current, and currently deteriorating size, it has no place.
[quote=“Rubickx”]
Unfortunately, this most likely will not happen. While I have many reasons to say why it will not, I’ve stated them too many times, and as such, will not repeat myself. Yes, if the game grows larger, then yes, the /ignore command becomes an important facet. But with PMU’s current, and currently deteriorating size, it has no place.[/quote]
Even with your points listed above, I still find /ignore golden for specific bad cases and find the worries of its overuse as being frankly overblown to a point of hysteria.
I mean if literally everyone is hypothetically ignoring one person, they’re obviously not good for the game in some way and mods probably need to deal with him/her by just talking to the person. Forcing a majority of the community to put up with somebody that stresses said community out can also make the community enjoy the game less and make people leave, arguably. It goes both ways in this theory, even though I think that it’s extremely unlikely that most people in a community will simultaneously ignore a specific person without it being a prank.
*Yeah, PMU has some severe issues to work out, and until then, it’s going to stay small.
If this is giving you an uncurable aneurism and hemeroids now. JUST IMAGINE WHAT YOU’D BE LIKE HAD I ACTUALLY RESPONDED TO ALL OF ARTMAX’S CONCERNS. You would be dead bro. Simple. Also everything you stated involving Artmax will be ignored. Thanks. Like I said before most of what he is trying to address has already been clarified if he just chooses to look at it in another angle. i can easily debate with artmax, but for what? Just for him to reverse his logic and come up with another argument that would just as perpetually pointless? Pffffft. Im good.
I’m not addressing it as if it were that, I’m addressing the argument of it being a possible solution as a substitute for staff moderation, since you also said this:
Unfortunately, that goes on a premise that the person blocking the other is being rational enough about the whole plan. If you are so annoyed by it that you need to completely wipe out the offender’s (at the time you may exaggerate their role quite a fair bit if you don’t like just something), you may or may not have already crossed into the irrational judgement.
Problem is, you’re not doing anything to stop them by blocking the person’s messages.
You can get higher ups to look at the logs, it will likely take some time to get done but it should bring about certain results. And you can always keep collecting dirt on the said person and make contiguous reports. Yes, I know you replied to that point in your message, but if you do not respond to said creepers except for reports, what do you lose?
Problem is, it doesn’t outweight what is happening here now. There may be certain potential uses for the option, but I strongly feel that it might likely collapse upon itself as it is now.
Just highlighting it again that the hypothetical offender’s offenses may be overblown.
My list mentions points that are detrimental to the sole blocker. Thing is, even if you block just one person, it may be a huge marginal drop since there are rarely ever more than 5 people active with something to say, much less helping or cooperating. And in most timezones it defaults to a handful few that may or may not pay attention to PMU since it’s, well, dead in that timezone.
Rather off-topic, but I do not think that is a thing you should be proud of. But I guess it would still be better than being an yes-no man.
Just look at what artmax is doing. He is quoting 15 different comments, and countering them, like its just that easy. DO YOU REALLY THINK YOU CAN ARGUE WITH SOMEONE LIKE THAT? You people amaze me.
If you want to convince people, then yes, you need to address every concern, instead of returning criticisms with all the grace of a 14 year old on mic playing Call of Duty. It’s not people addressing his concerns that’s giving me a headache, its your absolute lack of meaningful input. Now, if you actually took the time to respond to Art’s concerns in a mature, fact backed, and non petulant manner, your words would be mean much more, and be much more credible. as of now, I will gracefully bow out of this conversation because you seem to insist on being immature, and slinging poo where a potentially decent debate on a potential future command can be held.
irrelevant. :]
I sure would like to see some evidence with that.
Atleast I can come up with an argument, huh? As for the “perpetually” pointless, the whole thread is this, no matter which side you’re on, but hey, humour me. Atleast other people care for your suggestion, unlike you.
I’m responding point by point since I don’t want to be some stark raving mad believer or opponent, I want to make sense. And didn’t you just say that most of what I say has been allegedly clarified? It would be the same thing, except against me instead of me doing it.
I sure would like to see some evidence with that.
Atleast I can come up with an argument, huh? As for the “perpetually” pointless, the whole thread is this, no matter which side you’re on, but hey, humour me. Atleast other people care for your suggestion, unlike you.
I’m responding point by point since I don’t want to be some stark raving mad believer or opponent, I want to make sense. And didn’t you just say that most of what I say has been allegedly clarified? It would be the same thing, except against me instead of me doing it.[/quote]
Ninja Art: Stop
irrelevant. :][/quote]
In fact, it is VERY relevant. This is basically a debate. What Artmax is doing is the basics of debate, while you are flailing about calling things irrelevant, which is contributing absolutely nothing to your own points, while relying on others to do the arguing for you. Now, are you going to actually attempt to back your own argument up, or are you going to continue sounding like a brain dead child who knows how to speak only one word?
Some of you are telling me I’m not answering to negatives, and then proceed to post another negative like the outcome will be any different than it was before. Pffft, you people continue to amaze me.
IRRELEVANT!!
irrelevant. :][/quote]
In fact, it is VERY relevant. This is basically a debate. What Artmax is doing is the basics of debate, while you are flailing about calling things irrelevant, which is contributing absolutely nothing to your own points, while relying on others to do the arguing for you. Now, are you going to actually attempt to back your own argument up, or are you going to continue sounding like a brain dead child who knows how to speak only one word?[/quote]
What do you think the answer to this is? IRRELEVANT. LOL that was so satisfying. Also, I can roast you so hard bro, trust me.I can make you cry. I don’t think you want this heat.
What really amazes me is that you’re still here, doing as much as the court jester telling knock knock jokes during the congressional passing of a law. I’m sure we all appreciate you bringing up the topic of the command, but you really aren’t contributing at all to this conversation. What I’m saying is give us facts backing your own points, or leave. Its that simple.
ALL OF YOU ARE PROVING WHY THERE SHOULD BE AN /ignore COMMAND. LOL So funny
Aragoth, you roasting me on an internet forum will only boost your own ego, and continue to destroy your own credibility. I am quite simply asking you to contribute meaningful conversation and back up your own points. What I did not expect is that not only do you continue to refuse to do so, you continue to act like a child, and continue to destroy your own reputation.