Heart scales are an uncommon consumable item. I agree that the current system works quite well versus granting a completely random move.
However, the main difference between Togetic’s move offerings and shiny pokemon odds is scale and the number of rolls that need to be made. Getting a shiny pokemon to spawn is going to be an exceptionally rare occurrence, whereas heart scales (When not spawning at particularly unbalanced rates in specific problem dungeons) are more uncommon than they are rare. (Assuming you’re using frisk) Both making use of a heart scale and trying to recruit a shiny necessitate an additional “roll of the dice” so to speak, but the chances you get to roll those dice vary significantly. Missing a shiny is much, much more punishing than not getting the egg move you want on your first try, because getting to a point where you can retry is going to take a lot longer.
Depends on your definition of “guaranteed,” but Gible, Dratini, and depending on your perspective things like Spiritomb, Phione, and arguably even fossil pokemon come to mind.
I can understand the concern here, and in fact would not be opposed to a mechanic such as tying shiny spawn rates to explorer rank. What I would like to see avoided is not necessarily players at the tail end of progression having higher chances to find shinies compared to someone fresh to the game; the problem I have with using HC’s current system as the standard is it will likely flash a few shinies doomed to disappear into the void in front of newer players, and necessitate players later in the game to always carry their recruitment items or face the same potential disappointment.
Would you find a system that removes “dud” shinies from the equation while still providing late-game shiny hunters ways to increase their odds to be acceptable?
Never read anywhere that staff will adjust rate spawns I’m only going by the current system right now.
Eggs and Fossils do have random dice roles. You can get a shiny from an egg, but it may not be the pokemon you wanted. Fossils already are difficult to get in general + RMS.
Also, if fossils and eggs are the META way to get shines why would that necessarily be a bad thing? It will still be a grind fest either way.
I agree with this sentiment. Tying shiny pokemon to explorer rank and the higher the rank you are the more likely off a chance you get a shiny. Guarantee recruitment after grinding for guildmaster. Kinda like how you have to grind gems to get a guaranteed gible.
We’ve already argued that tieing anything into explorer rank is a bad idea considering how broken and outdated the explorer rank system is, we had more votes on getting a more linear system than this forum at one point, but that forum has since been abandoned Mission Board: Linear Progression hopefully it’s been at least considered or worked on, although we don’t know anything since it received no staff commentary, as for staff adjusting the rates check the discord, or be active on pmu at all, sciz and pencil have said it multiple times if I remember correctly.
Edit: I think instead of a shiny charm having shiny spawn rates tied to explorer rank is a great idea (Since explorer rank is the equivalent to the pokedex in the main series), but I believe linear progression of explorer ranks should be added first.
Have thought about replying to this for a while, basically my stance just comes down to:
Please just let me have a use for my 16 spare Pokemon Gifts, would have literally no reason to use them otherwise.
@CallThePolice Maybe we should open up a suggestion for the ability to bring pokegifts into HC? since I completely agree there is a massive lack of application for them with veteran players.
Personally I’m in the 1/1000 spawn rate but non-guaranteed recruit chance. To my understanding rarer Pokemon already have a higher chance to be shiny (Feebas for example). I would prefer it being that way because it gives a use to Pokemon Gift. It would give people a reason to use them & I think it would be even better if Pokemon Gift was made tradeable so players who have them but no desire to hunt shinies.
I understand that it can be heart breaking to find a shiny Pokemon and it doesn’t join but personally I think a little heartbreak can be good for the game and people for that matter.
Agree on the 1/1000 spawn but not guaranteed recruit. I do like that it gives Pokemon Gift’s a use as well as the fact that shinies are cool and its just nice to see them too. I do understand that I am biased with my large quantity of Pokemon Gift’s though.
I understand the frustration at being unable to make use of pokemon gifts in the endgame–I have a pretty sizable stack of them myself, and would stand to benefit from the higher spawn rate/lower RR as it is now. But I still don’t particularly like the current system.
I agree the pokemon gift suffers from a bit of a design flaw; for it to be a desirable option, the process of recruiting its target without a gift needs to be tedious enough the player is willing to burn a very limited item to skip it–something much more likely to happen in the early-game with its abysmal recruit rates, well before you ever see your first pokemon gift.
Intentionally designing a system to require a band-aid to give a less useful item more value is not a compromise I think should be made. That would be like making negative status effects more dangerous because safeguard/gems exist to completely negate them.
After a few people were talking about this topic on discord I have more a clear understanding on recruit rate in general and would like to thank staff for adding shinies to the game. Now on to my point.
No pokemon in PMD/PMU has ever had a 100% rr (aside from a few bosses). Why? Well in these games players aren’t ment to recruit every pokemon that comes across their way. Well… unless it’s a experienced player and they are increasing their chances with a pokemon gift/golden mask/friend bow. Which brings my next point, this feature is only to pander new players into getting shines for free(100%rr). The recruit rate system is designed to not allow new players to recruit pokemon at a 100% rr, shiny or not. Not only are they getting shinies for free when they find one, what this suggestion is asking for ignores the recruit rate system entirely. A pidgey that has a 60% rr jumps to 100% rr cause a new player happens to come across a shiny or worse ditto (-13.5%) gets a 100% rr. Yes new players should get a chance at shinies, but not a guarantee if they come across one. If its a guarantee then pokemon gift/golden mask are indirectly getting less value because at that point there is no recruit rate system(for shinies).
A topic people like to throw is that experienced players will opt for eggs instead once shinys are integrated into eggs because they have no rr. Like I said before experienced players will always have a pokemon gift etc. with them when they are hunting shinies. In addition honeys exist and honey significantly increases your chances at finding a shiny, its what’s meta right now. Eggs/fossils mechanic in pmd were only in missions, never in dungeons. So if staff ever change the shiny rate in them, this should considered.
You are correct. The KO-based recruitment system is an entirely different beast than the main series’ pokeball-based system. And that’s exactly why so many of us are arguing that trying to transplant the mechanic of shiny pokemon into a system where recruitment of an indivudually-spawned pokemon is completely out of the players control requires some adjustment.
So a 1/10000 chance of even seeing it is “free?”
The recruit rate system is not designed around shinies, period.
Again, if they see the shiny in the first place. If we factor in the shiny spawn rate to the chances of recruiting a randomly-spawned pidgey, the chances of recruiting it don’t even go up by a tenth of a percent, assuming your concern is this making it easier for newer players to recruit pokemon in general.
Even something like Ditto gaining a 1/10000 chance of bypassing the normal recruit check isn’t going to make it substantially easier to get a Ditto.
Recruitment rate boosters were plenty useful for recruiting normal pokemon before. Them not being useful for a new feature doesn’t suddenly make their old function invalid or less useful.
The pokemon gift is not a standard item at all, it’s an event exclusive. As I mentioned one post above:
This seems like a bit of a non-sequitur. What are point are you trying to prove here? The effects of items such as honey are if anything more powerful with higher spawn rates, not less.
This doesn’t have any substance to it other than an appeal to tradition. Is there some specific reason you think that approach was a better one?
I’d at least like to see them be able to be recruited even with a full party or something, if someone is going to accidentally kill one with a full party, they should at least have the chance to recruit it.