Shiny Spawn and Recruitment Rates

Suggestions and Contributions
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Currently under the conditions of this shiny beta test HC of sorts, it’s not only possible but more likely than not for a player to encounter a shiny only to immediately fail to recruit it.

In other pokemon games where shines exist, it’s possible to fail to capture a shiny as well. However, this is usually due to player error rather than failing a coin flip; to my understanding, shiny spawnrates are already planned to be higher than the main games to compensate for this, but I believe this system is likely to create a lot of frustration for people deliberately hunting shinies as well as players–especially newer ones–who bump into a full-odds shiny on accident and more often than not completely whiff the encounter.

Additionally, a higher spawn rate also means anyone who keeps a pokemon gift on their person at all times is now operating in a system where the chance of an individual pokemon being shiny is higher, the amount of pokemon that can be encountered per hour is significantly higher, and they can guarantee the recruit that was supposed to be a coin toss to balance the above two factors out.

In order to both reduce the frustration for players caught in the former scenario, and avoid the potentially ridiculous min-maxed odds in the latter, I propose shines outside of this event be made to have a 100% recruit rate when spawned but have a reduced spawn chance–even lower than they do in the main series. Say, instead of encountering 8 shinies and recruiting 1 of them over a long period of time, the player would encounter only 1 within that same timespan but be guaranteed to recruit it. This would preserve their rarity–which is important–as well as reduce the chance of players winding up in the soul-crushing situation of the game giving a player false hope and then crushing it when they fail the coin flip, instead turning a shiny encounter into an extremely rare but equally rewarding high moment for the player. This also prevents the pokegift and recruitment boosting items from significantly screwing with the balance of shiny hunting.

EDIT: If the above is confusing and sounds like I want shinies to be easier to obtain, read this post: Shiny Spawn and Recruitment Rates

EDIT2: Concerns have been raised regarding a flat spawn rate for shinies regardless of progression. As such, in addition to the above, I propose the spawn rate of shiny pokemon be weighted by the explorer rank of the party leader–higher ranks increasing the spawn rate. (With a further decrease to the base rate if deemed necessary)

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Shinies are an excellent addition, the community is certainly grateful to spriters and staff. Hear us out too! Simplicity is important. I greatly agree with op and I don’t want to see fellow explorers urged to bring recruit items wherever they go!

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I highly agree with this post. I have no argument against these ideas.

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I like the sound of this. No problems here; I 100% agree.

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I totally disagree with this… It’s the same as an idea for make new implemented pokemon be 100% guaranteed RR but harder to find. it’s insane!

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Care to explain why exactly it’s so insane of an idea?

We actually have a number of recruits already balanced around being more difficult to encounter while also having a maxed recruit rate. Pokemon revived from fossils from TC are a good example, as well as Phione–one of the hardest pokemon to recruit currently in the game. On top of that, there’s Mimikyu’s Worn Doll in Tanren Graveyward as well. Dipping into personal opinion here, but those are some of the more enjoyable and rewarding recruits to me, personally. And that’s not even mentioning eggs as a whole.

As addressed in the OP, there are major differences in how obtaining pokemon works in the main series games that normally feature shiny pokemon, and how obtaining them in PMD/PMU works. PMD/PMU removes a lot of player control when it comes to obtaining pokemon and replaces it with dice rolls. You can gain the ability to load those dice, but that’s still going to mean anyone unfortunate enough to get “lucky” earlygame has a 85%~ chance of incoming disappointment, (During the time when making sure the player is consistently enjoying themselves is most important, I might add) while people late enough into the game are going to be able to obtain shinies quite quickly and potentially even over-saturate them.

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Of course I’ll explain!

First of all, You are literally requesting time of work and effort being handed like silver plate!

Currently things are very decent with the very varied opportunity to find shiny Pokemon. I’ve seen people complaining about not able to find shiny Pokemon (also than some Shinies are hard to notice by simple look -Togepi-) and still saying and thinking than spawn rate is lower than said. In fact, I heard than Shiny spawn is higher than canon one (That’s good!), also than we are not fighting 1 Pokemon each floor, we fight groups of them each floor (Like if you hate Teeter Dance Spinda in HC).

I know and feel than most anyone messed up one time trying to get shiny Pokemon, I did in Emerald when I found a shiny abra (Teleport), but I didn’t gave up or complain about it!.

Actually people who wants to get a shiny keep trying even if they are failing or not, that’s what games are about, work hard for complete or get something you want for keep your journey. (fact than working hard and finally get it will give you the best feeling of the world!).

Also than 2nd value RR boosters (Rank, Level, Items, Abilities) are a thing outside HC. I could just let it pass if you Request like a boost of RR on them or something.

Now going to Rare Pokemon (Like Sandile, Larvitar, Zangoose, Fossils Etc), like I said, It’ll be good a RR boost but not like… gift you the Pokemon, because that will open the door and thinking to “Why not simply gift the normal form?”. Like gachas games, you’ll not get exclusive unit always! it’s rare to happen that!.

AND NOW THAN YOU MENTION FOSSILS, guess what will happen once they accept your suggestion? Exactly, They’ll be even more harder to spawn a shiny! (Ignoring than getting the fossil or item to get certain Pokemon is already rare and hard).

So I think, everyone should be thankful with the update and staff team, spriters, contributors for make shiny Pokemon real here in PMU. Would you like work hard on something for later being treat like “is not a big deal”?

In conclusion, a life lesson, “If you want to get something, work hard for it, because not everything is free in this world”. (ignoring than I sell everything cheap or gift it because itll do a free spot in my storage and also want to restore PMU economy jajaja!).

RNG is like a karma(But with numbers), and karma… (And I’ll not write the rest of it or I’ll get in problems jajajaja!).

PD: Stop editing your comment! you are making me feel dizzy! XD

EDIT: Also! DON’T GIVE UP! Once you give up! Everything will fall into despair and depression!

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But when it comes to fossil, they are already 100% and the way the code works according to staff is each pokemon shiny rate is not only changeable but needs to be specifically set, so by this suggestion pokemon with 100% recruit rate will remain unchanged, well pokemon with not 100% rr will become rarer.

You misunderstand what we are saying, we do not want them to be more common what so ever, we actually want them to be more rare, statistically speaking people who have recruited a larger percent of the shinies they’ve spotted would have less shinies if this was implemented, so logistically saying we want them to be more common is factually wrong, what leo specifically said he is suggesting is multiplying the spawn rate by recruit rate, so that the actual rarity of recruiting them is the same. However, players hearts won’t be broken but rejection from a shiny.
What Leo is saying is that 3 dice rolls is insane, not the rarity, we have NO ISSUE WITH THE RARITY but with the 3 DICE ROLLS, currently the dice needs to be rolled for in order, the pokemon spawn chance, the chance of being shiny, and the recruit rate, What leo is suggesting is combining the last 2 dice rolls, which will technically make them rarer statistically.

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I’m in agreeance with the OP, but think that since shiny rate is adjustable per pokemon (pretty sure it is at least) that things like bagon, rotom, ditto and others with very high rarity have their shiny rr set as 100% because losing those would really hurt. but for others I would say that the rate should not be 100% tho it should still get a boost (be that boost a multiplier like x2, or a flat rate boost like a friend bow).

I would say that they should all be 100% like the OP suggests as in the main games most people carry 20+ pokeballs, but the abra teleport point Kuma brought up is valid. there are similar things like struggle and explosion as well. these would be the only edits to the OP I think necessary tho.

then in response to Demetrius, I don’t think multiplying spawn rate and rr would work, seeing as rr is variable. but something like halving the encounter rate would be feasible. I’m not sure what they are set at currently, but seeing as you can see about 10-20 pokemon in pmu in the time you could see one in the main series, I would say that the spawn rate be at least decimated, if not reduced more.

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Our biggest reason for this argument isn’t even self-serving the biggest reason we want the 100% is for fairness for new players, anyone who has been playing has already witnessed the sadness of new players seeing all the experienced players with shinies and not being able to obtain their own since in HC recruit rate is largely influenced by explorer rank new players chances of recruiting a shiny if seen is considerably lower than veterans like myself. HC is directly made to be a fair dungeon for all players new and old, which is the whole reason why items aren’t allowed and level is set and for the main feature of an HC, and sole purpose I understand of extension not to be available for new players is quite is disheartening. In online game, events should always reward based on hours put in not on past hours played.

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No. I’m specifically requesting the current system be amended in a way that avoids this. Demetrius covered that nicely already; I’d just be repeating his points on this one.

I have not once personally complained the spawn rate is too low.

Yes, there are a few fringe cases like teleport and self-destruct users in the main series. Those would still exist here in the form of recoil moves, though there are less options to just flat-out OHKO yourself.

Again, I’ve yet to see anyone requesting making them easier. Merely suggesting a system that, for all intents and purposes, skips what would normally be failed recruits by not even showing you a shiny.

This is not a solution; this is a part of what I consider the problem–as I pointed out in the OP.

Let’s stay far, far away from anything resembling gacha game balance, please.

As far as why rare non-shiny recruits shouldn’t also be bumped up to 100% RR, in most cases the rare recruit in question will not take more than a few hours to hunt down. Shinies have the potential to take much, much longer to encounter, and thus bad RNG is much more likely to ruin someone’s day if the recruitment attempts fails more often than the average.

Demetrius addressed this; rates can be adjusted according to the method used to obtain a pokemon.

I can’t speak for everyone else, but I am quite appreciative of the work that’s being done here, including the impressive spritework you and the rest of the spriting team has done. And that’s precisely why I want to provide my feedback to help out in shaping this new mechanic into its best possible state.

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There still exist opportunities for shinies to self-KO in PMU. I wholeheartedly disagree that we need to slice recruit rates to recreate that.

Anything less than 100% only makes the problem worse. Missing a 25% shiny feels bad, but missing a 50% one feels even worse.

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I would also like to restate my appreciation from the work of both the staff team and contributors, but should the advantage of having a small MMO not be the ability to adapt to what the player base wants? Especially since this is a fan game. I personally would like to see shinies as a whole become a lot rarer especially after this HC, and maybe later have ways of chaining or manipulating the odds via hard labor. The whole point of shinies is to make peoples days not break them, it’s better to see none than for one show up and not join.

Edit:It’s insane people are seeing shinies so much and even more insane that some people have like 4 recruited on day 2, but others who have spent the same amount of time have none.
I absolutely adore the idea of rewarding a Shiny token for 8k coins and having stuff similar in the future wouldn’t be such a bad idea, I personally love the idea of hard work being reward in MMO’s rather than gambling odds.

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Is not the same with new pokemon or pokemon than someone doesn’t have yet? >_>*

Why it needs to be amended? Is it that bad? I could agree with you if NO ONE had recruited a shiny yet. (Ignoring the gifted ones)

That’s the problem of this topic and why this is twisting my calm. Technically you are requesting shiny Pokemon be 100% RR! Not everything has to be 100%, like I said, a boost ill be ok! But not that!

I know you want them be more rare, please read again my answer about Fossils.

I do too! But that doesn’t matter! I’ll keep trying! even if HC ends, I’ll still look for it!
I found a shiny Seel and didn’t recruited, but I didn’t care, is not like shinies will be only while HC is up! and I think you are thinking it like that!

It’ll be for veterans like u and me! D:<

Well… I can’t say nothing about this, new players have to feel welcome to PMU Universe.

Ufff… Thank you for touching that topic, I forgot it!
Haven’t you said:

At the end still the fact than Rank increase just 1%-10% that’s true, but not everyone is at max rank!

BUT AT THE END! It’ll be anywhere! Overworld and all dungeons! We can help new players with that! I think a lot have farmed Friend bows with this HC! Repeating what I said! Shinies will not disappear! HC Is not the deadline!
(If you disagree with this comment, I’ll change my mind of thinking of you now)

Yeah it is! But like most of games! Even if is event! if you are not level or experienced enough, you’ll not make it to harder paths! you are looking for easy to all without any type of effort.

I do too with others be like “Stop complaining and talking about it and keep playing!” and “It’s fine like it is”.

Then you’ll make quite of useless those items :T thanks for nothing.

Then do it the best and also FAIR to all parts of view!

That’s all I’m going to say! Please understand this point of view!

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Are you not deliberately ignoring the context of what you are quoting? or is this some kind of joke? Because you are saying we are saying the opposite of what we are actually saying and it is as you said also “twisting my calm” not only that and I also don’t know if this is intentional, but I find the way you handle your words, and faces quite derogatory, me and Leo aren’t stupid, and when it comes to handling statistics I don’t think there is anyone better in PMU’s community, we do have a tendency of making forum suggestion posts that are self harming in order of preserving logic, and if that doesn’t stand as a testament I don’t what physically could.

Edit: If what you say is true then we are on the same side and at this point me and Leo are running out of ways to explain it, we all agree that shinies should be special and not common and devalued like everything else in PMU, but what we are saying is make it more beneficial and realistic for the majority and not just the PMU elite.

Edit again: So Parse mistook what we were saying because his first language isn’t English, and we worked it out! :smiley:

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As there’s some confusion here as to what exactly I mean in the OP, let me clarify. I don’t think any of us want shinies as a whole to be more common. Let me try to break down how I understand things to be now versus what I’m suggesting it be changed to.

Under the current system, we’ll assume odds around 1/1000 for our theoretical shiny to spawn and the average recruit rate for most players to be at around 25%. What I’d like to see instead, is a 1/4000 chance for the shiny to spawn, but a recruit rate of 100%.

Both of these scenarios result in the same number of shinies coming into the game, but the latter doesn’t wave a shiny in front of the player’s face before yanking it away. It’s also less affected by pokemon gifts and recruitment boosting items.

In all, what I’d like to avoid is a new player coming into the game, seeing a shiny, and then nine times out of ten being heavily discouraged when that shiny fails to actually join them.

Obviously the exact numbers I don’t know right now, but the gist of it is I’d like to see the spawn rate divided by around the number of “dud” shinies a player would normally encounter on average in the current system, in exchange for the recruit rate being bumped up to 100%. Rarity is preserved, disappointment is minimized.

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This! So much this. From my own experience; I’ve found five shinies so far, and not one of them joined me. I gotta say, it stings when it feels like the game is just teasing you.
Don’t get me wrong, I really love the addition of shinies! They’re a special, memorable thing: a one-in-thousands kind of chance. I think Leo’s suggestion really reduces the headache and frustration of unsuccessful shiny hunting, all while keeping things balanced and fair.

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Like Angel is saying, the problem with 3 dice rolls, is some people will get, 3 out of 5 that spawn, or even 5 out of 5 and exactly what they wanted, and others get 0 out of 5, if you adjust it to 2 dice roll, it will have less deviation, and lets say, both players found 1 now, because statistically that’s what should happen, and is more likely with two dice rolls. They become more rare, but have less deviation in wild spawns, I am even willing to have the shiny rate decreased even further, but having a shiny yanked away after failing a 10%-5% (The standard recruit rate for lower explorer levels in HC) recruit, that you really want, well several people got it “first try” is a horrible feeling, and sure that is impossible to prevent completely, it will be even harder to find a shiny, but at least it isn’t being wagged in front of you like a carrot on a stick in a dungeon.

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Shiny Recruits right now, are like heart scales before they got changed. Heart Scales were rare a few years ago and it gave you a random egg move, but now it got changed to give 5 random moves instead of 1.

Heart scales were really unfair just like the current shiny recruit rate system right now. Like heart scales I don’t think making shiny recruits 100% rr guaranteed recruit is a good idea just like how heart scales giving you a guaranteed move isn’t a good idea either and that heart scale idea never got implemented regardless of how many times the community wanted it.

Also, the idea of a new player having the same chances of recruiting a shiny as an experienced player isn’t good game design imo. The professor in the main Pokemon games gave you a shiny charm after you completed the pokedex to increase your chances of getting a shiny. The main games awarded you for completing a milestone in the game with an item that increases your chances to see a shiny.

Imo PMU should follow a similar route. Make an item that’s incredibly rare that significantly increases the chances of recruiting a shiny, but don’t make it 100%. There’s nothing on PMU that’s rare that’s a 100% guarantee, so why start now.

Sorry if I repeated things, didn’t read everything :P

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You are arguing rarity when we’ve already discussed this will statistically make them less common despite the 100% RR, ignore the 100% RR eggs have 100% RR, Fossils have a 100% RR? and if this isn’t implemented they will quickly become the more preferred hunting method, and egg/fossil related shinnies will be more common, especially since staff said rates are going to be adjusted to compensate rarity, we just want to make everything roll 2 dices.

Edit: Not only do we want them to be rare, we are advent apposed to how common they are currently, people should be able to have made a team of all shinnies by Saturday so soon after their release.

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