Well. This is pretty self-explanatory, ‘unfairness’. It’s about Hayarotle, actually. He is constantly enforcing the rules, as any staff should, yet he is breaking them at the same time? Yes, I may have some old evidence, but it’s about time people came out to show Hayarotle who he really is.
Thus, it is an abreviation of the swear that is in most languages. You can probably guess what swear it originates.
Evidence example 2: Hayarotle saying a swear on global, this piece wasn’t caught by me though. I have been told it is an ‘accident.’ Believe what you want.
I posted it twice to show there was another staff online, and he still got away with it. Which, is kind of why I am doing this. Staff can just claim that they did it by accident and wouldn’t intentionally do it because they’re staff. Which actually, is one of the most idiotic reasons I have ever heard.
Evidence example 3: Hayarotle mentioned banning, to what wasn’t even a banable situation. And yes, I was being questioned by BOTH staff over the spriting thing.
I honestly don’t know how to explain my disgust. I was permamuted earlier for doing the same thing as Hayarotle, posting a swear on global, and I can’t just get others to stick up for me. So I don’t see why Hayarotle should. Yes, my reasons for getting permamuted were to show how far staff can be pushed, but it is also stupid that staff can get away with it and players can’t. Staff are there to enforce the rules, and us players usually stick by them, but sometimes lose our ways and swear on global and end up getting muted. I honestly don’t see no better time for this post.
-Blood.
I’ll try my best to support your case.
I agree what has happened to you is pretty unjust and pretty unfair. Staff are meant to help us, become our friends, and make our experience more enjoyable. (I know that sounds needy, but I’m not meaning it in that way.)
Staff shouldn’t enforce rules too strictly, (I noticed that Haya seems just to warn/mute/ect. Without giving a chance to explain. At least from my experiences.) but should look into each case and understand it’s reasoning. I’m not even going to touch on the rule breaking part myself. That itself is pretty self-explanatory.
And also not to mention I’ve seen countless players say a swear in an example and weren’t even warned/muted or anything. (Myself. I’ve said the word, “Damn” and its variants several times as well as, “Hell”) These are the cases I’m talking about that need to be looked into. You can’t just punish a few “unlucky” people who got caught at the wrong time when you have countless others doing it. It just doesn’t make any sense and it just makes the whole punishment system seem wibbly-wobbly and pretty unjust…
Anyway summing it up, I agree with the on the fullest blood. I hope to see you unmuted soon, if you’re not already.
EDIT: Auto-block or whatever it’s called, “fixed” my messages…but you probably will be able to understand.
Swear words aren’t originly “bad” for example, what Haya said meant “Female Dog” (used for breeding) in some cases, but it can be used as slang which is bad…So I don’t think Haya did anything wrong there :c
EDIT: On the skype thing, he might’ve been confused or unhappy with the fact that we were messing with sprites.
Let’s see, you are complaing about fairness… What would have been done in this situation, if it was a player? We would just have told him he was missing a letter, making it sound like a swear. Considering I was talking before that screenshot about how that kecleon was not real, but a fake, I think it’s safe to assume I just ended up missing a letter.
…I fail to see how that would be an accident. It is fine (although good to avoid) to use borderline swears when not directing at someone. If it wasn’t, staff would have to mute all people who ask if using words like “hell” outside directing it at somebody is allowed, all staff who answers that, and all staff who answer players who ask which word of what they said is not allowed.
At the time of that talk, there was suspection that the sprites were gotten by hacking. Something similar happened in a old winter event: players hacked the game, got access to the dungeon and spoiled it. Those were banned for some time, even if they did tell who else participated on it. In that case, it would be a bannable situation, as you would be taking responsability from all the players who could have possibly hacked the game. What is unfair on that, considering none of you were punished, as in the end you did say who you knew used the glitch?
First, when you get a warning, you still are able to explain anything. And on mutes, most often it has already been discussed on previous warnings (With the command or not). You are given some time to ask why that is something wrong, and when you get muted it is because you continued with it, even after being warned about it. There are also many cases where the person spams, get warned/muted and immediately log off, not allowing for any kind of discussion. Sometimes discussions are not needed as it is quite easy to read the rules to see where the reason why you got warned before the mute (Which is given to you, by a warn, a personal message, or just a normal message). You are given a chance to ask about it, and warnings are not a form of punishment. The only times people get muted or banned right away is generally when they would log off every time the staff would warn, or ask, or it is something that is blatantly against the rules (Such as having an inappropriate named account spam caps lock swears over global).
As I stated many times, borderline swears such as “hell” are fine when not directly used against somebody, on their original meaning, or when talking about a swear somebody else did (Not for players, as that would be mini-modding). (Not it is a good idea to use them). The justice system isn’t unfair if some thieves can get lucky and be free from their crimes, as you were not supposed to steal in first place. As mods cannot be everywhere, the whole day, we also depend on reports done by players. If we had an automated system, it likely would be easily abusable and unfair. If you did see players swearing and getting away with it, you could have taken a screenshot and reported.
First, when you get a warning, you still are able to explain anything. And on mutes, most often it has already been discussed on previous warnings (With the command or not). You are given some time to ask why that is something wrong, and when you get muted it is because you continued with it, even after being warned about it. There are also many cases where the person spams, get warned/muted and immediately log off, not allowing for any kind of discussion. Sometimes discussions are not needed as it is quite easy to read the rules to see where the reason why you got warned before the mute (Which is given to you, by a warn, a personal message, or just a normal message). You are given a chance to ask about it, and warnings are not a form of punishment. The only times people get muted or banned right away is generally when they would log off every time the staff would warn, or ask, or it is something that is blatantly against the rules (Such as having an inappropriate named account spam caps lock swears over global).
What I shared were just what I noticed myself. I can’t be on all the time monitoring, it was just my own experiences. And don’t you think that warnings should include the violation? More than once I just got, “Watch it!” or something similar never explaining what I did wrong even if I did ask. (Also happened to friends.)
As I stated many times, borderline swears such as “hell” are fine when not directly used against somebody, on their original meaning, or when talking about a swear somebody else did (Not for players, as that would be mini-modding). (Not it is a good idea to use them). The justice system isn’t unfair if some thieves can get lucky and be free from their crimes, as you were not supposed to steal in first place. As mods cannot be everywhere, the whole day, we also depend on reports done by players. If we had an automated system, it likely would be easily abusable and unfair. If you did see players swearing and getting away with it, you could have taken a screenshot and reported.
Everyone should understand that mods can’t be on 24/7 but you’re not understanding my point. My point is that countless people get away with it, even with staff on, whether they’re lenient or not. Now whenever someone breaks the rules it’s a role of the dice if a “nicer” staff member is on or not.
I myself don’t mind swearing. I see nothing wrong with it. I won’t report it in most cases. Which is why that I think the idea of punishing a select few people for making a swear, when you have plenty of others running around doing whatever they please (much worse swears, racism, rude remarks, stealing, ect.). It’s not right just to pick out someone who was unlucky enough to say something with a good purpose at the wrong time.
Right. So, when I got my first mute for pm’ing a friend, you, Hayarotle, warned and muted me at the same time. Is that giving me chance to explain? No, is that giving me a chance to ‘stop’? No.
Last time I checked, “hell” was not acceptable. Your “censors” pick them up regardless of the fact that they were or were not directed at someone. Words such as “cr*p” or “s**t” are borderline too in my opinion, yet not acceptable. When I saw the second screenshot, I kinda laughed. Don’t see why it was repeated. In any case, I could use it and say its not a bad word in my language yet still get a mute/warning.
I’d like to say something about this also. Quite a while a go, I got MUTED via a glitch (We presume, since I never got an answer to why.) I logged on after a restart to be Perma-MUTED, and nobody would un-mute me because they presumed I swore, or violated the rules, but there was absolutely no evidence backing up why I was MUTED. In total I spent give or take 5 days MUTED, for doing nothing. Yet some people get MUTED for a matter of hours for seriously violating the rules. What I am trying to say is, I think there should be a point of reference which decides the mute duration. If you try and say: “You should have asked someone.”
You can’t use that as a valid argument since I PM’d around 3-4 staff on here, and in the ends only Fennes actually bothered to help.
I understand that you can’t be here all your life, but I think there needs to be more monitoring with the mutes.
This probably has nothing to do with this topic, but since it seems like a mute debate, I thought I would add my opinion.
PS: This is NOT in anyway trying to pick out staff, I am just trying to say more vigilance is needed, Thank You.
Swamp~
I’d like to say something about this also. Quite a while a go, I got MUTED via a glitch (We presume, since I never got an answer to why.) I logged on after a restart to be Perma-MUTED, and nobody would un-mute me because they presumed I swore, or violated the rules, but there was absolutely no evidence backing up why I was MUTED. In total I spent give or take 5 days MUTED, for doing nothing. Yet some people get MUTED for a matter of hours for seriously violating the rules. What I am trying to say is, I think there should be a point of reference which decides the mute duration. If you try and say: “You should have asked someone.”
That's why I believe some things, such as mute/jail/ban time, what is acceptable and what is not, what a warning really means, etc. should be discussed between staff and made clearer.
Staff are also supposed to record mutes done, so if this happened it is because somebody failed to do that, or it was before a system like was added. So yes superswampert, what happened here may be an error on the staff team's part. The only problem with telling everybody exactly when they will be muted, is that this ends up making mutes not taken seriously.
I don't think I did warnings without including the violation, either on the warning, on a personal/global/local message, or on a previous warning that would be repeated and was further explained the first time. But yes, the point of warnings is to tell you what you did wrong, they are pointless if the staff member doesn't explain what you did in any way, and it is not made extremely clear in the rules.
Because of that, mutes related to clear rule-breaking (Such as using harsher swears, talking inappropriately, etc end up going without time for discussion before your mute ends, as it is made clear that what you are doing is not appropriate, and most times people do it, they do not have an actual discussion, but either log off or keep rule-breaking before you do mute them, extending the mute. Why did I mute you at the time?
Our censors pick them regardless if they were directed or not at someone, because our censor system is unable to interpret the context of the phrase, and extremaly repeated non directed uses would also lead to a mute. Some human input is required (A fully automated system would end up muting mispellings that sound like a swear, such as "He'll" or "Cum here" or "Fake", and ignoring abuses of the censor system and some other kinds of things that could only possibly lead to a mute). And we can't really read all the chats going on pmu all the time, and that's why the censor is as abranjent as possible, with borderline swears and possible insults included. This requires players to help too, reporting anything they find against the rules, so we can further analyse it.
Rules are meant to make the community better for the community itself, meaning anything that deserves a mute will either be observed by another player, be picked by the censors or not actually deserve a mute (You should be able to bully an oran berry in your own house, for example, as it is not making the community worse, or being anything dangerous. Swearing wouldn't be allowed in that case, however, as somebody could come at anytime).
Because of that, mutes related to clear rule-breaking (Such as using harsher swears, talking inappropriately, etc end up going without time for discussion before your mute ends, as it is made clear that what you are doing is not appropriate, and most times people do it, they do not have an actual discussion, but either log off or keep rule-breaking before you do mute them, extending the mute. Why did I mute you at the time?
Basically, You muted me because I didn’t want the whole of PMU hearing a swear, So I pm’d the meaning of a word to swamp and straight away I got warned and muted. I could of said it on global, but I took it to pms.
You was muted, and then you mute avoided and pmed the word to swamp, and got warned and, once again, muted? Was it a harsh swear, and where was it said?
You was muted, and then you mute avoided and pmed the word to swamp, and got warned and, once again, muted? Was it a harsh swear, and where was it said?[/quote]
Mute avoiding? nonono, I was training with Swamp and a few others in Skylift at the time, and then I said ‘Swamp, you heard the phrase ‘Tolo’’ and he said ‘No’ so I asked him if he wanted to find out, he said yes, and I pm’d him the meaning. No way in the world was I “Mute avoiding”.
Mute avoiding? nonono, I was training with Swamp and a few others in Skylift at the time, and then I said ‘Swamp, you heard the phrase ‘Tolo’’ and he said ‘No’ so I asked him if he wanted to find out, he said yes, and I pm’d him the meaning. No way in the world was I “Mute avoiding”.[/quote]
Then we likely just got the sensor for you randomly pming the word… Most people who do that, end up leaving right away when they are muted. It likely was misinterpreted, and happened time swearing throwaways account were being created, making you mistaken for that. If you expressed it in a clearer way which wouldn’t give doubt about it, you likely wouldn’t have been muted.
So basically, you were accusing me of mute avoiding and creating a disposal account to swear and get muted? I know I’ve stepped out of line recently but c’mon how stupid do you think I am? Oh. And your Permamutes keep coming off. I just error’d and was un-muted. I had to get Shockie to mute me again.
-Blood.
P.S. I told you I don’t mute avoid.
Nope. First, I only though you was saying you mute avoided because of this:
You was saying that, basically, I muted you because you swore, and so you pmed the meaning of it to swamp (While being muted), and got warned and muted again. I did understand that was not what you meant when you did the other post, after this one.
I also didn’t say you created a disposal account. All I said was that there were many disposal accounts in the day, which ends up making mutes for swearing or talking inappropriately go straight, as the other people who got just warned would leave before they could explain anything or we could mute them. Remember, the message we got was just you saying the swear, there were no signs of you just explaining it to warn your friend not to use it.
You got muted because all we got from you was that you swore, with no backstory, and other people were swearing and leaving before anything could be done in the day.
I don’t think I did warnings without including the violation, either on the warning, on a personal/global/local message, or on a previous warning that would be repeated and was further explained the first time. But yes, the point of warnings is to tell you what you did wrong, they are pointless if the staff member doesn’t explain what you did in any way, and it is not made extremely clear in the rules.
I know that you have done at least one, from my experiences, but that’s not counting what may have happened to other people. And I’m not just pointing all fingers at you I’m just using it as an example.
For instance, with a friend of mine whom I’m not going to name. (I’m pretty sure you know.) Said “w.t.f” (Spaced like that to prevent autoblock just in case.) And they got warned without being let know why, even if they asked several times and you still didn’t let them know until a different staff member let them know why.
There’s only one problem with this… If he didn’t know it was not allowed, why did he space it so it was not detected? Also, if he asked many times and I didn’t answer, it could be that I was busy with something else which would stop me from seeing the chat (Such as mapping).
Remember that, at the moment, I expected you to leave right after I did anything, as many other players were swearing and doing that.
Remember that, at the moment, I expected you to leave right after I did anything, as many other players were swearing and doing that.[/quote]
Just cos loads of other players were doing it, doesn’t mean I would of…
